Are whites being hated because of the Oklahoma City bombing?

Page 1 of 3 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

The_Blonde_Alien
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2015
Gender: Female
Posts: 863
Location: Puerto Rico

26 Apr 2017, 6:39 pm

For those of you who don't know, in 1995 a white-supremacist, anti-government terrorist by the name of Timothy McVeigh bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma resulting in the deaths of many people including children. More information can be found here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

That said, it has been more than 20 years since that incident, could the white people who are being attacked by the far left extremists (the so-called "social justice warriors") be a consequence of the stigma generated from said bombing as evidenced from the following videos?







After watching a Netflix documentary on the incident I can't help but feel a little sympathy for those social justice warriors hating on white people, especially if they are related to the victims of the Oklahoma bombing.


...However, racism will always be considered a haneous act on my moral compass, regardless of the race in question (unlike the logic of most SJW's).


_________________
Quote:
Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today

-Thomas Jefferson


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,535
Location: Houston, Texas

26 Apr 2017, 6:53 pm

I haven't noticed any anti-white sentiment because of it. The overwhelming majority of people didn't lump all whites with McVeigh, even though white nationalism is every bit as ghastly as Salafism.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,148
Location: temperate zone

26 Apr 2017, 7:35 pm

No.

The Oklahoma Bombing was a heinous act, but it had no effect on the endemic racial strife in American society that was already centuries old in the mid 1990's. And, as Tim said, no one even associated the act with racism at the time any way (most of the victims, as I understand it, were the same skin color as the perpetrator: White, anyway).



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,811
Location: London

27 Apr 2017, 10:16 am

SJWs aren't extremists, they're moderates. Most of them aren't left-wing either; people with all sorts of political views can be SJWs.

White people are not hated.

McVeigh is only brought up when racists claim that all terrorists are brown people.



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

27 Apr 2017, 11:16 am

To equate whiteness with OKC is really, kind-of obsolete. This trope was more-common, in the militia days, when talkshows still came over the analog antenna. A current event in the late 80's and early 90's.

We know, now, that infiltrators will instigate, to make people look bad, and that is how McVeigh was regarded by avowed racists.

These movements were effectively maligned, when mysterious "wanted" posters named specific officials, who were supposed to be tried by the paramilitants. Or, were they crisis actors.

The Davidians were tried on leftist technicalities. The fact that firearms are mainly used to put holes in things, animate and inanimate, was not a priority. Guns in the hands of religious cultists would have been completely ethical, had they been recorded in a certain way, and measured at a certain length. The same tact was used at Ruby Ridge. The people were allowed to believe anything they wanted, no matter how offensive. The authorities were considered to be impartial, because they focused on the technicalities -- arbitrary legalisms.

As a cultural phenomenon, it has collapsed, this way.

Quote:
SJWs aren't extremists

What does the 'w' stand for?

A basic definition of terrorism is, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. And, why are we debating these people's talking points, now. Maybe, you have better ideas, but did not agitate. Will people be discussing your arguments, 30yrs from now, no matter how valid. And, in the long run, have these people gotten what they wanted -- to be seen and heard.

I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,796
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

27 Apr 2017, 4:44 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
To equate whiteness with OKC is really, kind-of obsolete. This trope was more-common, in the militia days, when talkshows still came over the analog antenna. A current event in the late 80's and early 90's.

We know, now, that infiltrators will instigate, to make people look bad, and that is how McVeigh was regarded by avowed racists.

These movements were effectively maligned, when mysterious "wanted" posters named specific officials, who were supposed to be tried by the paramilitants. Or, were they crisis actors.

The Davidians were tried on leftist technicalities. The fact that firearms are mainly used to put holes in things, animate and inanimate, was not a priority. Guns in the hands of religious cultists would have been completely ethical, had they been recorded in a certain way, and measured at a certain length. The same tact was used at Ruby Ridge. The people were allowed to believe anything they wanted, no matter how offensive. The authorities were considered to be impartial, because they focused on the technicalities -- arbitrary legalisms.

As a cultural phenomenon, it has collapsed, this way.

Quote:
SJWs aren't extremists

What does the 'w' stand for?

A basic definition of terrorism is, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. And, why are we debating these people's talking points, now. Maybe, you have better ideas, but did not agitate. Will people be discussing your arguments, 30yrs from now, no matter how valid. And, in the long run, have these people gotten what they wanted -- to be seen and heard.

I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.


Believing any and every offensive thing is and should be defended by the constitution. That said, all that changes when those offensive things are put into action. Randy Weaver was a violent white supremacist who had threatened his neighbors at gun point, and who was apparently a very persuasive liar, as local and federal law enforcement fell for his bullsh*t that he was trained in military special forces. Sure, the feds had gone overboard with their reaction, and I'm even sorry that he lost his crazy wife, and son who he was raising to be a Neo-Nazi soldier. But living in Washington, just west of the Idaho state line, I can attest how at that time, all the vile white supremacists who had flocked to my part of the country had gotten everybody on edge with their violence, and their in-your-face extremism. The biggest myth about Ruby Ridge is that people like Randy Weaver just wanted to be left alone. No, they honestly believed in their insane ideology of creating an all white homeland in the Pacific Northwest. Something was bound to explode, and that something was at Ruby Ridge.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,535
Location: Houston, Texas

27 Apr 2017, 5:10 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
SJWs aren't extremists, they're moderates. Most of them aren't left-wing either; people with all sorts of political views can be SJWs.

White people are not hated.

McVeigh is only brought up when racists claim that all terrorists are brown people.


Aren't Arabs white?


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,796
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

27 Apr 2017, 5:20 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
SJWs aren't extremists, they're moderates. Most of them aren't left-wing either; people with all sorts of political views can be SJWs.

White people are not hated.

McVeigh is only brought up when racists claim that all terrorists are brown people.


Aren't Arabs white?


They're caucasian, but people get thrown thrown by their brown skin, as well as their west Asian and north African origins.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,148
Location: temperate zone

27 Apr 2017, 5:36 pm

McVeigh is a thumb in the eye of many...including groups opposed to each other.

I remember seeing an angry Arab woman on TV (she even wore a burka)in the early 2000's who was upset about the US media always tacking the word "Islamic" onto the word "Terrorism".

She said "why don't they call Timothy McVeigh a 'Christian terrorist'?".

I thought to myself "Lady! McVeigh may have been a Christian, but he didnt do the act in the name of Christianity the way Ben Ladin did 9-11 in the name of Islam.So though he was certainly a 'terrorist' he would be 'a terrorist who happened to be Christian' and not a 'Christian terrorist'"

I learned later that McVeigh was not even a "Christian". He self ID'd as an "atheist" (kinda surprising since McVeigh's creed was a kind of pathologically extreme version of what would later be called "Tea Partyism" which is associated with the Bible Belt).Though obviously he was an American White guy of Christian (prolly Catholic Irish) cultural background.

But on the other hand Americans assume that most terrorists in America are Koran thumping brown people. In fact most of the people on the FBI terrorism watch list are native born White guys (survivalists hold up in cabins) much like small time versions of McViegh.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,472
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

27 Apr 2017, 7:06 pm

In the past 5 years I have only seen one person I feel was being racist towards white people. It was an angry black guy in a wheelchair just ranting and raving about white people, even the other black people near the bus stop told the guy to knock it off and quit being hateful. I have not noticed any large scale anti-white racism, so no I do not think people generally hate whites because of the Oklahoma City bombing. Granted the ones that do are no worse than the white people who stereotype all Muslims or middle eastern people as terrorists, or white people who stereotype black people as criminals.


_________________
We won't go back.


friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Apr 2017, 11:52 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Aren't Arabs white?


Nazi's believe that Semites (not just Jews, but related peoples) had Afro-Asiatic languages, genes, and phenotypes (body measurements).

Black ideologues believe that anything other than black is white. Some have used the term "white" Latino, saying the mulatto/octoroon, George Zimmerman was white.

So, it depends on who you ask, or what is your standard of measurement.



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Apr 2017, 1:38 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.


To answer my own question, one way to deal with this is to make arbitrary distinctions, not so much different from laws or histrionics.

I think we should admit that our limits are made-up, in the long run, but that we chose to set boundaries, in order to avoid a slippery slope.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Believing any and every offensive thing is and should be defended by the constitution.

I prefer enlightened self-interest. I am not a sadist, per se, but, unlike the 'friends of Voltaire', I will not fight for your right to say it.

You go on to say why Weaver was unlikeable, and, of which I was aware, the straw that broke the camel's back was a barrel-length, with might have been ethical, if was 1/4" different. At least, it appeared in a litany of charges.

As people's careers were threatened for not crossdressing in red pumps, and trained men were used by Barry, for umbrella holders, and Smedley made many valid points, I think that social promotions are as specious in the military, as in the free world, but know it's a sore spot. I wouldn't personally take credit for my "achievements" there. I doubt whether people should export that, at gunpoint.

I also find it ironic, when I tell people to be candid, when asked, but live by the Golden Rule. I am generally a free thinker, when I am allowed to use the shortest words, humanly possible.

The leftists think that I am old-fashioned. The Weavers think that I am radicalizing you, as a Jewish subversive. Liberal lawyers offered me a ride home, and generally gave me special treatment, after I was asked my biases as a juror. I don't participate in what I consider to be unconscionable and don't ask you to, either.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,796
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

28 Apr 2017, 4:54 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.


To answer my own question, one way to deal with this is to make arbitrary distinctions, not so much different from laws or histrionics.

I think we should admit that our limits are made-up, in the long run, but that we chose to set boundaries, in order to avoid a slippery slope.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Believing any and every offensive thing is and should be defended by the constitution.

I prefer enlightened self-interest. I am not a sadist, per se, but, unlike the 'friends of Voltaire', I will not fight for your right to say it.

You go on to say why Weaver was unlikeable, and, of which I was aware, the straw that broke the camel's back was a barrel-length, with might have been ethical, if was 1/4" different. At least, it appeared in a litany of charges.

As people's careers were threatened for not crossdressing in red pumps, and trained men were used by Barry, for umbrella holders, and Smedley made many valid points, I think that social promotions are as specious in the military, as in the free world, but know it's a sore spot. I wouldn't personally take credit for my "achievements" there. I doubt whether people should export that, at gunpoint.

I also find it ironic, when I tell people to be candid, when asked, but live by the Golden Rule. I am generally a free thinker, when I am allowed to use the shortest words, humanly possible.

The leftists think that I am old-fashioned. The Weavers think that I am radicalizing you, as a Jewish subversive. Liberal lawyers offered me a ride home, and generally gave me special treatment, after I was asked my biases as a juror. I don't participate in what I consider to be unconscionable and don't ask you to, either.


Weaver was caught selling a sawed off shotgun by the feds, who had hoped to use him as an informant in order to report back to them on the very dangerous Aryan Nations church at Hayden Lake, Idaho. In return, they would have made the trouble with the shotgun go away. Because of a clerical error, Weaver showed up for court on the wrong day. Any psychologically normal person would have tried to straighten out the trouble about the date, but there was nothing psychologically normal about Randy Weaver, or the rest of his family, for that matter. So basically, he said, "F*ck 'em," and went back to Ruby Ridge. As the local law enforcement was afraid of Weaver for being potentially violent (he had threatened his neighbors at gunpoint, believed in a violent racist ideology, and everyone believed his lies about being in Special Forces in Vietnam), the Feds were called in. The Feds admittedly had been inexcusably negligent in just taking Weaver at this word that he was the warrior he claimed to be, rather than just a stupid redneck yahoo, married to a religiously delusional woman, and so they went in shooting.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

29 Apr 2017, 10:30 am

It seemed redundant, for me to quote so many lines, as we are both in general agreement, as to the details of the case.

I said that rules are ultimately arbitrary, but intended to keep us from going over the slippery slope. In this, and other threads, I have spoken in favor of nepotism, and identity politics, and enlightened self-interest, as I was being candid.

I think that you weren't actually concerned with public safety, but were just playing politics.

So, as well as agreeing to the details, we are taking a similar approach towards eachother. Are you being intellectually-honest about that, as I am?



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

29 Apr 2017, 11:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.


To answer my own question, one way to deal with this is to make arbitrary distinctions, not so much different from laws or histrionics.

I think we should admit that our limits are made-up, in the long run, but that we chose to set boundaries, in order to avoid a slippery slope.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Believing any and every offensive thing is and should be defended by the constitution.

I prefer enlightened self-interest. I am not a sadist, per se, but, unlike the 'friends of Voltaire', I will not fight for your right to say it.

You go on to say why Weaver was unlikeable, and, of which I was aware, the straw that broke the camel's back was a barrel-length, with might have been ethical, if was 1/4" different. At least, it appeared in a litany of charges.

As people's careers were threatened for not crossdressing in red pumps, and trained men were used by Barry, for umbrella holders, and Smedley made many valid points, I think that social promotions are as specious in the military, as in the free world, but know it's a sore spot. I wouldn't personally take credit for my "achievements" there. I doubt whether people should export that, at gunpoint.

I also find it ironic, when I tell people to be candid, when asked, but live by the Golden Rule. I am generally a free thinker, when I am allowed to use the shortest words, humanly possible.

The leftists think that I am old-fashioned. The Weavers think that I am radicalizing you, as a Jewish subversive. Liberal lawyers offered me a ride home, and generally gave me special treatment, after I was asked my biases as a juror. I don't participate in what I consider to be unconscionable and don't ask you to, either.


Weaver was caught selling a sawed off shotgun by the feds, who had hoped to use him as an informant in order to report back to them on the very dangerous Aryan Nations church at Hayden Lake, Idaho. In return, they would have made the trouble with the shotgun go away. Because of a clerical error, Weaver showed up for court on the wrong day. Any psychologically normal person would have tried to straighten out the trouble about the date, but there was nothing psychologically normal about Randy Weaver, or the rest of his family, for that matter. So basically, he said, "F*ck 'em," and went back to Ruby Ridge. As the local law enforcement was afraid of Weaver for being potentially violent (he had threatened his neighbors at gunpoint, believed in a violent racist ideology, and everyone believed his lies about being in Special Forces in Vietnam), the Feds were called in. The Feds admittedly had been inexcusably negligent in just taking Weaver at this word that he was the warrior he claimed to be, rather than just a stupid redneck yahoo, married to a religiously delusional woman, and so they went in shooting.

You think, because Weaver and his family didn't act "psychologically normal" ....therefore, they deserved what they got?

You realize this is "wrong planet" website, right?



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,796
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

29 Apr 2017, 1:30 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
I think, it's negative attention-seeking, moral masochism, and pig wrestling, and have never particularly heard of an effective strategy, to deal with that. It would be a useful life-skill. Just saying.


To answer my own question, one way to deal with this is to make arbitrary distinctions, not so much different from laws or histrionics.

I think we should admit that our limits are made-up, in the long run, but that we chose to set boundaries, in order to avoid a slippery slope.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Believing any and every offensive thing is and should be defended by the constitution.

I prefer enlightened self-interest. I am not a sadist, per se, but, unlike the 'friends of Voltaire', I will not fight for your right to say it.

You go on to say why Weaver was unlikeable, and, of which I was aware, the straw that broke the camel's back was a barrel-length, with might have been ethical, if was 1/4" different. At least, it appeared in a litany of charges.

As people's careers were threatened for not crossdressing in red pumps, and trained men were used by Barry, for umbrella holders, and Smedley made many valid points, I think that social promotions are as specious in the military, as in the free world, but know it's a sore spot. I wouldn't personally take credit for my "achievements" there. I doubt whether people should export that, at gunpoint.

I also find it ironic, when I tell people to be candid, when asked, but live by the Golden Rule. I am generally a free thinker, when I am allowed to use the shortest words, humanly possible.

The leftists think that I am old-fashioned. The Weavers think that I am radicalizing you, as a Jewish subversive. Liberal lawyers offered me a ride home, and generally gave me special treatment, after I was asked my biases as a juror. I don't participate in what I consider to be unconscionable and don't ask you to, either.


Weaver was caught selling a sawed off shotgun by the feds, who had hoped to use him as an informant in order to report back to them on the very dangerous Aryan Nations church at Hayden Lake, Idaho. In return, they would have made the trouble with the shotgun go away. Because of a clerical error, Weaver showed up for court on the wrong day. Any psychologically normal person would have tried to straighten out the trouble about the date, but there was nothing psychologically normal about Randy Weaver, or the rest of his family, for that matter. So basically, he said, "F*ck 'em," and went back to Ruby Ridge. As the local law enforcement was afraid of Weaver for being potentially violent (he had threatened his neighbors at gunpoint, believed in a violent racist ideology, and everyone believed his lies about being in Special Forces in Vietnam), the Feds were called in. The Feds admittedly had been inexcusably negligent in just taking Weaver at this word that he was the warrior he claimed to be, rather than just a stupid redneck yahoo, married to a religiously delusional woman, and so they went in shooting.

You think, because Weaver and his family didn't act "psychologically normal" ....therefore, they deserved what they got?

You realize this is "wrong planet" website, right?


No, I never said that. Rather, my point is, Weaver had brought it down on himself and his family. That lack of "normality" was hardly comparable to autism, but pathological, even criminal, disregard for the rules of society, which is common among extremists. Weaver believed those rules didn't believe the rules applied to him about selling altered firearms - entrapped or not - or even going back to court for the appropriate date, let alone shoving a gun into his neighbor's faces.
As a matter of fact, his own lawyer later told how Randy Weaver had admitted to him how he had brought this all about due to his out-of-control, racist ideology.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer