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Why are the radical left extremists still getting their way?

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K_Kelly
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03 Sep 2017, 12:22 pm

I actually prefer the conservatives on the right more compared to a lot of the people on the left, especially including the EXTREME anger and violence being harbored. I'm trying to get away from associating with left/right labels as myself. Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?

And I see more people standing up to usual political correctness, double standards, and just plain collective social stupidity. Yet, it doesn't seem to be enough that we're actually winning. I think the radical left may really still be growing, unfortunately we don't have the same numbers on our side just because we may be talking more online.

I don't think they deserve to have their way at all anymore, giving how they are behaving. They also seem like they'll find anything they can to use as a weapon against us.



AspieUtah
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03 Sep 2017, 12:48 pm

Think of politics this way: Whenever any political party goes too far afield for the tastes of their expected supporters, the result is that they will lose. When this is applied to the Democratic Party in the United States, constant protesting will deplete financial resources for the next presidential campaigns, and continue to make the party norms shift further away from the national electorate.

So, if radical left extremists are undesirable to certain voters, such voters should encourage the extremists to dither their time away with protest after protest, and rally after rally.

The political truism is that humans can't generally maintain their anger over time. The fact that certain Democrats are, indeed, maintaining their anger suggests something other than emotion is supporting and encouraging them to continue on a path of anger. Corporate and foundation money, perhaps?


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03 Sep 2017, 1:03 pm

...As far as suggesting crazy things___Please allow this one to point out the years and years the present incumbent spent pushing the "birther " thing, with, according to polls, some amazing percentage of Republicans still believing it...And, right now, Trump pushing " Obama wiretapped me ! " and " Hilary' s PV majority was 100% fake voters! "! Those " radical "?


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03 Sep 2017, 1:51 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Think of politics this way: Whenever any political party goes too far afield for the tastes of their expected supporters, the result is that they will lose. When this is applied to the Democratic Party in the United States, constant protesting will deplete financial resources for the next presidential campaigns, and continue to make the party norms shift further away from the national electorate.

So, if radical left extremists are undesirable to certain voters, such voters should encourage the extremists to dither their time away with protest after protest, and rally after rally.

The political truism is that humans can't generally maintain their anger over time. The fact that certain Democrats are, indeed, maintaining their anger suggests something other than emotion is supporting and encouraging them to continue on a path of anger. Corporate and foundation money, perhaps?

The viewpoints of the body of US government elected representatives have been increasingly moving to the right of the viewpoints of the electorate. This is especially true at the state level. Contrary to the popular belief pushed by republican voters and out-of-touch "centrists", a significant portion of "the left" doesn't vote for Democrats. Most of the time I hear that they think "Democrats and Republicans are the same thing". It could be the fact that so many people don't believe any politician or political party truly represents their interests or beliefs that is driving this anger.



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03 Sep 2017, 2:00 pm

I really don't think anyone is "getting their way". The whole SJW/BLM/Antifa vs. alt-right/white-nationalism is a BS circus sideshow. The same goes for the constant battle between Trump and the media. None of this s**t really matters to people who have real struggles just getting by in life. That it will influencing how people decide to vote is just sad.



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03 Sep 2017, 2:05 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
I actually prefer the conservatives on the right more compared to a lot of the people on the left, especially including the EXTREME anger and violence being harbored. I'm trying to get away from associating with left/right labels as myself. Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?

And I see more people standing up to usual political correctness, double standards, and just plain collective social stupidity. Yet, it doesn't seem to be enough that we're actually winning. I think the radical left may really still be growing, unfortunately we don't have the same numbers on our side just because we may be talking more online.

I don't think they deserve to have their way at all anymore, giving how they are behaving. They also seem like they'll find anything they can to use as a weapon against us.




Sure there are extremists on the left, and there is a lot of anger...but the same thing is true of the extreme right. You say you are trying to move away from right/left labels and then you go on about the extreme left without even a single mention let alone criticizm for the extreme right. This is something that bothers me about conservatives they'll talk all day about the extreme left but then they can't even criticize the extremists on their side. Either they defend them or simply pretend the extreme right doesn't exist and also cause problems.

Also though not sure what all you're talking about, how has the extreme left gotten their way per say...the president is a republican, if anything trump supporters on the right got their way.

Also hardcore PC rules would be unpleasant and causes too much walking on egg shells, so I get taking issue with people who want to push that too far. But it seems a lot of right wingers want to go to the opposite extreme and be as offensive and nasty as they can...I don't see that as a better alternative. The best thing would be some middle ground.


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K_Kelly
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03 Sep 2017, 2:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:
I actually prefer the conservatives on the right more compared to a lot of the people on the left, especially including the EXTREME anger and violence being harbored. I'm trying to get away from associating with left/right labels as myself. Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?

And I see more people standing up to usual political correctness, double standards, and just plain collective social stupidity. Yet, it doesn't seem to be enough that we're actually winning. I think the radical left may really still be growing, unfortunately we don't have the same numbers on our side just because we may be talking more online.

I don't think they deserve to have their way at all anymore, giving how they are behaving. They also seem like they'll find anything they can to use as a weapon against us.




Sure there are extremists on the left, and there is a lot of anger...but the same thing is true of the extreme right. You say you are trying to move away from right/left labels and then you go on about the extreme left without even a single mention let alone criticizm for the extreme right. This is something that bothers me about conservatives they'll talk all day about the extreme left but then they can't even criticize the extremists on their side. Either they defend them or simply pretend the extreme right doesn't exist and also cause problems.

Also though not sure what all you're talking about, how has the extreme left gotten their way per say...the president is a republican, if anything trump supporters on the right got their way.

Also hardcore PC rules would be unpleasant and causes too much walking on egg shells, so I get taking issue with people who want to push that too far. But it seems a lot of right wingers want to go to the opposite extreme and be as offensive and nasty as they can...I don't see that as a better alternative. The best thing would be some middle ground.


Wow, I personally do have some criticism of the extremes on my side.

This might be too nitpicky or reading in to it too much, but why is it so common for a person on one side to assume that their opponent has nothing to say about their side (especially in a negative context) when they may criticize the other's side?



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03 Sep 2017, 2:29 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?


I've thought similar things for a long time, not just on politics but most things. I too have been labouring under the idea that people with ASD were supposedly more logical and came at things with a more objective and informed manner, but I see so many things on this forum daily (again not just politics) that makes me question the extent to which that stereotype is accurate, or on the other side I find myself questioning people's diagnosis which is probably considered the worse thing to do - I don't want to be the kind of person that uses "you can't really be autistic" as a catch all argument.



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03 Sep 2017, 3:17 pm

Extreme ends of the political spectrum are taken up by idiots. Thankfully hardly anyone actually sits there even though their antics gets them a lot of TV air time, most people imo are just centre-left or centre-right.



marshall
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03 Sep 2017, 4:54 pm

Chichikov wrote:
I've thought similar things for a long time, not just on politics but most things. I too have been labouring under the idea that people with ASD were supposedly more logical and came at things with a more objective and informed manner, but I see so many things on this forum daily (again not just politics) that makes me question the extent to which that stereotype is accurate, or on the other side I find myself questioning people's diagnosis which is probably considered the worse thing to do - I don't want to be the kind of person that uses "you can't really be autistic" as a catch all argument.

You are not more objective than others simply because you lack an emotional reaction certain things that don't effect you directly. If anyone on the "crazy left" was getting their way in US we would have universal healthcare like you do in the UK. It's also a "crazy left" idea to accept the scientific consensus that climate change is real and being driven by human activity. Just crazy and illogical.



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03 Sep 2017, 5:07 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
Extreme ends of the political spectrum are taken up by idiots. Thankfully hardly anyone actually sits there even though their antics gets them a lot of TV air time, most people imo are just centre-left or centre-right.

The definition of "centre" is different in the US than it is in the UK. Right now "centre-right" in the US is tax breaks for the rich, gutting the social safety net, and removing affordable healthcare. To be "far-right" you have to be with the Richard Spencer crowd. Sure, we have some crazy protesters, but they don't accomplish s**t. When it comes to politics that actually matters, the plutocracy is firmly in control of both of our silly parties.



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03 Sep 2017, 5:29 pm

marshall wrote:
You are not more objective than others simply because you lack an emotional reaction certain things that don't effect you directly.

Yes you are, that's literally what the word means.



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03 Sep 2017, 5:46 pm

Chichikov wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:
Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?


I've thought similar things for a long time, not just on politics but most things. I too have been labouring under the idea that people with ASD were supposedly more logical and came at things with a more objective and informed manner, but I see so many things on this forum daily (again not just politics) that makes me question the extent to which that stereotype is accurate, or on the other side I find myself questioning people's diagnosis which is probably considered the worse thing to do - I don't want to be the kind of person that uses "you can't really be autistic" as a catch all argument.


ASD people aren't more logical.

We're just better at rationalizing our emotions.

This is from me, who has spent years dealing with autistic loonies on either side.


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03 Sep 2017, 6:12 pm

Chichikov wrote:
marshall wrote:
You are not more objective than others simply because you lack an emotional reaction to certain things that don't effect you directly.

Yes you are, that's literally what the word means.

No it doesn't.

Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

You should also notice that the definition not only mentions feelings, but also opinions. There is a thing called confirmation bias where people tend to only look at things that reinforce their current worldview.

In the end though, being an "extremist" isn't simply a matter of having a factual bias. Political opinions are ultimately informed by values, not facts. In order to understand this you have to study the Is-Aught problem presented by Hume.



Some of the views of PETA on animal rights are considered "extreme" now, but in the future technology/culture may evolve to the point where humans no longer slaughter animals for food.



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03 Sep 2017, 6:26 pm

..." Both ". No fan of the Lib Dems, then?










ote="marshall"]

Biscuitman wrote:
Extreme ends of the political spectrum are taken up by idiots. Thankfully hardly anyone actually sits there even though their antics gets them a lot of TV air time, most people imo are just centre-left or centre-right.

The definition of "centre" is different in the US than it is in the UK. Right now "centre-right" in the US is tax breaks for the rich, gutting the social safety net, and removing affordable healthcare. To be "far-right" you have to be with the Richard Spencer crowd. Sure, we have some crazy protesters, but they don't accomplish s**t. When it comes to politics that actually matters, the plutocracy is firmly in control of both of our silly parties.[/quote]


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03 Sep 2017, 6:40 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:
I actually prefer the conservatives on the right more compared to a lot of the people on the left, especially including the EXTREME anger and violence being harbored. I'm trying to get away from associating with left/right labels as myself. Sometimes I even find it hard to believe that aspies or some other neurodivergent groups tend to vote more left, especially since recently they became even more crazy and hateful. But I thought we were supposed to be more thoughtful and intelligent. But a lot I see on here is my fellow aspies and others on the spectrum say nothing but despicable things about Donald Trump and other conservatives (it doesn't always only apply to the right in the US either). Why does everyone have to "prove" they are not racists, bigots (whatever name you want to throw) ?

And I see more people standing up to usual political correctness, double standards, and just plain collective social stupidity. Yet, it doesn't seem to be enough that we're actually winning. I think the radical left may really still be growing, unfortunately we don't have the same numbers on our side just because we may be talking more online.

I don't think they deserve to have their way at all anymore, giving how they are behaving. They also seem like they'll find anything they can to use as a weapon against us.




Sure there are extremists on the left, and there is a lot of anger...but the same thing is true of the extreme right. You say you are trying to move away from right/left labels and then you go on about the extreme left without even a single mention let alone criticizm for the extreme right. This is something that bothers me about conservatives they'll talk all day about the extreme left but then they can't even criticize the extremists on their side. Either they defend them or simply pretend the extreme right doesn't exist and also cause problems.

Also though not sure what all you're talking about, how has the extreme left gotten their way per say...the president is a republican, if anything trump supporters on the right got their way.

Also hardcore PC rules would be unpleasant and causes too much walking on egg shells, so I get taking issue with people who want to push that too far. But it seems a lot of right wingers want to go to the opposite extreme and be as offensive and nasty as they can...I don't see that as a better alternative. The best thing would be some middle ground.


Wow, I personally do have some criticism of the extremes on my side.

This might be too nitpicky or reading in to it too much, but why is it so common for a person on one side to assume that their opponent has nothing to say about their side (especially in a negative context) when they may criticize the other's side?


I guess I am just used to seeing a lot of conservatives constantly blame everything on the left. For instance plenty of right wing commenters I saw commenting on face book posts of the incident of the white supremacist running over protesters twisted it around to some how being the fault of liberals. Like they couldn't admit that as being an example of extremism on the right.

But yeah sorry for assuming that you have that mentality. As they say assuming can make an a** out of a person lol.


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