What is so great about Trump and the Right?

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JohnPowell
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24 Nov 2017, 6:48 pm

Shakti wrote:
Well, the right wing movement gains momentum the more that people are afraid. The left wing movement is about compassion, and recognizing we will only advance as a collective whole if we help each other out.

As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't like the way society is now, don't be a conservative, otherwise you'll get the same results.


I wonder if that has anything to do with things like putting a million 'refugees' into places like Germany at once, without consulting the people of that country :roll: What societies are conservative exactly? Both the right and the left support wars across the world for the most part. When a true leftist like Jeremy Corbyn comes along and tries to stand against wars and actually proposes socialist policies, the media and Co go after him like there's no tomorrow.


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24 Nov 2017, 11:00 pm

GoSensGo wrote:
People should have the right to do whatever they want with their money. Some people like to think of rich people as greedy, underhanded, lucky, etc, but if you look at the richest people in the world, you'll mostly see people who worked their asses off to develop and build a business. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Ortega, etc. Who gets to decide what having "too much money" is?

And if you choose to heavily tax a wealthy person, what's to stop them from moving their business to another country with lower taxes?

The moving to another country is a problem, and it would need a global response, which is not easy; then again, if they don't pay tax, what's the point of them inhabiting your country anyway!?

As for what having the right to do what they want with their money; once it's taken by tax it's not their money anymore, and unless you know someway to make a country work properly without taxation, as it would also apply to the poor and the middle class, it's not a pragmatic argument.

And peoples don't become rich only by working hard, it depend of a lot of factors and most peoples working hard, sometime harder that "self-made" billionaires, don't gain that much success. If you think that Microsoft and Amazon were not build on greed, you greatly mistaken; and they wouldn't have been able to make that much money without the Internet, which was built as a governmental project.


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25 Nov 2017, 7:57 am

In the past the right was about looking out for themselves only, wanting more of their money for themselves, less given away in tax and not showing much interest in those worse off than you. In 2017 it is those things but also has for some reason become about being seriously hateful towards those worse off than them and those that dare to hold a different view to them.



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25 Nov 2017, 10:55 am

Biscuitman wrote:
In the past the right was about looking out for themselves only, wanting more of their money for themselves, less given away in tax and not showing much interest in those worse off than you. In 2017 it is those things but also has for some reason become about being seriously hateful towards those worse off than them and those that dare to hold a different view to them.


That's a silly statement because there are a lot of poor right wingers and a lot of rich liberals.

And if you think the "being seriously hateful" towards those with a different view applies more to right wingers, you must be living in a vacuum.



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25 Nov 2017, 11:02 am

Tollorin wrote:
GoSensGo wrote:
People should have the right to do whatever they want with their money. Some people like to think of rich people as greedy, underhanded, lucky, etc, but if you look at the richest people in the world, you'll mostly see people who worked their asses off to develop and build a business. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Ortega, etc. Who gets to decide what having "too much money" is?

And if you choose to heavily tax a wealthy person, what's to stop them from moving their business to another country with lower taxes?

The moving to another country is a problem, and it would need a global response, which is not easy; then again, if they don't pay tax, what's the point of them inhabiting your country anyway!?

As for what having the right to do what they want with their money; once it's taken by tax it's not their money anymore, and unless you know someway to make a country work properly without taxation, as it would also apply to the poor and the middle class, it's not a pragmatic argument.

And peoples don't become rich only by working hard, it depend of a lot of factors and most peoples working hard, sometime harder that "self-made" billionaires, don't gain that much success. If you think that Microsoft and Amazon were not build on greed, you greatly mistaken; and they wouldn't have been able to make that much money without the Internet, which was built as a governmental project.


I'm not saying there's no greed involved - EVERYONE is greedy and self-centred to a degree, this does not apply only to the wealthy. But who is to judge what someone's motives for success are? If a scientist comes up with a cure for cancer, does it matter if he searched for a cure for greedy reasons (the money and fame it would bring him)?

Private enterprise will ALWAYS be more efficient than government. The internet may have been a governmental project, but think of all the things that you use on the Internet that make it great - YouTube, Facebook, eBay, Amazon, Hotmail, Gmail, Twitter, this forum, etc - it's ALL private enterprise.

Nobody is saying don't tax the rich, but a lot of people feel like the rich owe them something. People want to tell other people what they should do with their money.



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26 Nov 2017, 5:52 am

GoSensGo wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
In the past the right was about looking out for themselves only, wanting more of their money for themselves, less given away in tax and not showing much interest in those worse off than you. In 2017 it is those things but also has for some reason become about being seriously hateful towards those worse off than them and those that dare to hold a different view to them.


That's a silly statement because there are a lot of poor right wingers and a lot of rich liberals.

And if you think the "being seriously hateful" towards those with a different view applies more to right wingers, you must be living in a vacuum.


^^classic whataboutery^^

I don't hold the other teams in high esteem either and think little of them, but this thread is about 'the right' and so only commented on them.



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26 Nov 2017, 3:59 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Shakti wrote:
Well, the right wing movement gains momentum the more that people are afraid. The left wing movement is about compassion, and recognizing we will only advance as a collective whole if we help each other out.

As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't like the way society is now, don't be a conservative, otherwise you'll get the same results.



I wonder if that has anything to do with things like putting a million 'refugees' into places like Germany at once, without consulting the people of that country. What societies are conservative exactly? Both the right and the left support wars across the world for the most part. When a true leftist like Jeremy Corbyn comes along and tries to stand against wars and actually proposes socialist policies, the media and Co go after him like there's no tomorrow.


Actually the media and co go after him because his socialist ideas spark outcries of conspiracy and outrage with most of his yelling and shouts in the House of Commons. Things like garden tax and removing tuition fees which are coming to nothing. I also, am not a supporter of wars to end all wars, but I do and I'm sure a lot of people feel sure that we need to end the threat of Islamic powers in the form of ISIS across the broad Atlantic media spectrum and not rehouse them back as refugees if they've been radicalised. It's not even a race against time anymore, its about a race against crime.
Also, I've never been a Tory in my life, but I voted for Leave to put an end to phoney European Laws.
I'm sorry folks, but Flash Corbyn is not the true alternative of Labour for me.



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27 Nov 2017, 2:46 pm

Empathy wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Shakti wrote:
Well, the right wing movement gains momentum the more that people are afraid. The left wing movement is about compassion, and recognizing we will only advance as a collective whole if we help each other out.

As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't like the way society is now, don't be a conservative, otherwise you'll get the same results.



I wonder if that has anything to do with things like putting a million 'refugees' into places like Germany at once, without consulting the people of that country. What societies are conservative exactly? Both the right and the left support wars across the world for the most part. When a true leftist like Jeremy Corbyn comes along and tries to stand against wars and actually proposes socialist policies, the media and Co go after him like there's no tomorrow.


Actually the media and co go after him because his socialist ideas spark outcries of conspiracy and outrage with most of his yelling and shouts in the House of Commons. Things like garden tax and removing tuition fees which are coming to nothing. I also, am not a supporter of wars to end all wars, but I do and I'm sure a lot of people feel sure that we need to end the threat of Islamic powers in the form of ISIS across the broad Atlantic media spectrum and not rehouse them back as refugees if they've been radicalised. It's not even a race against time anymore, its about a race against crime.
Also, I've never been a Tory in my life, but I voted for Leave to put an end to phoney European Laws.
I'm sorry folks, but Flash Corbyn is not the true alternative of Labour for me.


They went after him before he mentioned any of that. And that's because he's always been anti-war and has criticised Israel. It was these wars that helped form ISIS. If you're a 5 year old in Iraq in 2003 and all you know is bombs, blood and carnage for 14 years, you're going to be messed up. I'm against taking in any 'refugees' pretty much.
At least it isn't Blair.


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29 Nov 2017, 9:50 pm

Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs." That, and his supporters tend to be people who are behind the times with their knowledge of science and the arts, and want nothing more than to humiliate those who they call elites for their what they know about said science and the arts, even if it's detrimental for the country. So in other words, there is nothing special about Trump and the right, and everything wrong. It's a philosophy of resentment and prejudice looking for something to justify those feelings.


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29 Nov 2017, 11:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs." That, and his supporters tend to be people who are behind the times with their knowledge of science and the arts, and want nothing more than to humiliate those who they call elites for their what they know about said science and the arts, even if it's detrimental for the country. So in other words, there is nothing special about Trump and the right, and everything wrong. It's a philosophy of resentment and prejudice looking for something to justify those feelings.


Real nice of you to wrap up the 63 million people who voted for Trump with blanket statements and stereotypes.

It's funny how people get so blinded with partisan politics that they can't see how similar they really are to the people they're fighting against.



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30 Nov 2017, 12:18 am

GoSensGo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs." That, and his supporters tend to be people who are behind the times with their knowledge of science and the arts, and want nothing more than to humiliate those who they call elites for their what they know about said science and the arts, even if it's detrimental for the country. So in other words, there is nothing special about Trump and the right, and everything wrong. It's a philosophy of resentment and prejudice looking for something to justify those feelings.


Real nice of you to wrap up the 63 million people who voted for Trump with blanket statements and stereotypes.

It's funny how people get so blinded with partisan politics that they can't see how similar they really are to the people they're fighting against.


Then give me reasons specifically why I'm wrong, please.


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30 Nov 2017, 2:04 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Empathy wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Shakti wrote:
Well, the right wing movement gains momentum the more that people are afraid. The left wing movement is about compassion, and recognizing we will only advance as a collective whole if we help each other out.

As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't like the way society is now, don't be a conservative, otherwise you'll get the same results.



I wonder if that has anything to do with things like putting a million 'refugees' into places like Germany at once, without consulting the people of that country. What societies are conservative exactly? Both the right and the left support wars across the world for the most part. When a true leftist like Jeremy Corbyn comes along and tries to stand against wars and actually proposes socialist policies, the media and Co go after him like there's no tomorrow.


Actually the media and co go after him because his socialist ideas spark outcries of conspiracy and outrage with most of his yelling and shouts in the House of Commons. Things like garden tax and removing tuition fees which are coming to nothing. I also, am not a supporter of wars to end all wars, but I do and I'm sure a lot of people feel sure that we need to end the threat of Islamic powers in the form of ISIS across the broad Atlantic media spectrum and not rehouse them back as refugees if they've been radicalised. It's not even a race against time anymore, its about a race against crime.
Also, I've never been a Tory in my life, but I voted for Leave to put an end to phoney European Laws.
I'm sorry folks, but Flash Corbyn is not the true alternative of Labour for me.


They went after him before he mentioned any of that. And that's because he's always been anti-war and has criticised Israel. It was these wars that helped form ISIS. If you're a 5 year old in Iraq in 2003 and all you know is bombs, blood and carnage for 14 years, you're going to be messed up. I'm against taking in any 'refugees' pretty much.
At least it isn't Blair.

Those who are partisans of Trump were the same peoples who supported the Irak war in 2003; those who opposed it are against him.


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30 Nov 2017, 9:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
GoSensGo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs." That, and his supporters tend to be people who are behind the times with their knowledge of science and the arts, and want nothing more than to humiliate those who they call elites for their what they know about said science and the arts, even if it's detrimental for the country. So in other words, there is nothing special about Trump and the right, and everything wrong. It's a philosophy of resentment and prejudice looking for something to justify those feelings.


Real nice of you to wrap up the 63 million people who voted for Trump with blanket statements and stereotypes.

It's funny how people get so blinded with partisan politics that they can't see how similar they really are to the people they're fighting against.


Then give me reasons specifically why I'm wrong, please.


Do I really have to explain to you that there's going to be a radical differences in a group of 63 million people or more? You've been alive for over a half century and you want me to explain why 63 million people are not going to fit perfectly into your condescending stereotypes? Come on dude.



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30 Nov 2017, 10:04 am

Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs."

And if you don't see the left doing the exact same thing I don't know what to tell you. Bernie Sanders telling everyone the system is rigged and rich people are holding everyone down, leftist groups blaming white men for everything going wrong in the world... partisan blindness really is something. :D



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30 Nov 2017, 10:47 am

GoSensGo wrote:
Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs."

And if you don't see the left doing the exact same thing I don't know what to tell you. Bernie Sanders telling everyone the system is rigged and rich people are holding everyone down, leftist groups blaming white men for everything going wrong in the world... partisan blindness really is something. :D


It's especially the white man blaming which has made me a conservative. So congratulations to the left for driving people like me away. It's funny to me that they talk so much about inclusion and what not, but then when it comes to certain groups of people, they do a 180 and allow themselves to be completely polarizing...

Because me, a white autistic kid who grew up with a mentally ill mom on welfare, living in one of the poorest areas of my country, is alot more priviledged than a black kid growing up in a 10$ million dollar mansion, with a strong and supportive family... obviously :roll:



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30 Nov 2017, 1:43 pm

GoSensGo wrote:
Trump appeals to people who look at their own lack of movement up the social ladder and want to blame someone else for it, whether it's women or minorities getting what they call "special rights," or poor people "stealing from them," or immigrants, legal or otherwise, "stealing their jobs."

And if you don't see the left doing the exact same thing I don't know what to tell you. Bernie Sanders telling everyone the system is rigged and rich people are holding everyone down, leftist groups blaming white men for everything going wrong in the world... partisan blindness really is something. :D


Well, I do respect the fact that you chose to respond to me with a counter argument. To be sure not every Trump supporter was inspired by xenophobia, though I must say that those I know had been.
As for Bernie Sanders - he never assigned wrong doing against the rest of us to a specific race such as white men. That, and there is much more evidence that the rich and powerful on Wall Street are the cause of our misery than the idea that people who have it worse than us are the culprits.


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