"A Voice of Hate in America’s Heartland" article controversy

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ASPartOfMe
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29 Nov 2017, 4:13 pm

New York Times article in question

NYT Accused Of Normalizing White Nationalism In ‘Nazi Sympathizer’ Profile

Quote:
The New York Times is under fire for publishing a profile of an Ohio native and Nazi sympathizer that many saw as an attempt to normalize white nationalism.

The profile, written by Times reporter Richard Fausset and published Saturday, follows Tony Hovater, a 29-year-old welder from a Dayton suburb, and his path from a “vaguely leftist rock musician” to a Nazi sympathizer and “avowed white nationalist.”

Some readers thought Fausset’s profile wasn’t critical enough of Hovater’s views on race (Hovater believes races should be separated), his admiration for Adolf Hitler (Hovater described Hitler as “kind of chill” and thinks the Holocaust’s death total estimates are “overblown”) and his role in starting the extreme right-wing Traditionalist Worker Party, a group that marched at the white supremacy rally this summer in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Fausset appears to use the newlywed’s seemingly normal life to show just how easy it is for an average American such as Hovater to adopt such radical and hateful views.

Instead, many saw the profile as an attempt to normalize Hovater’s white nationalist views, fascism and the neo-Nazi movement.

Bess Kalb
"I don't mean to sound intolerant or coarse, but f**k this Nazi and f**k the gentle, inquisitive tone of this Nazi normalizing barf journalism, and f**k the photographer for not just throwing the camera at this Nazi's head and laughing."

Bess Kalb, a writer for “Jimmy Kimmel Live,” especially took issue with Fausset’s insistence that Hovater is polite. For example, in the same sentence that Fausset describes Hovater as a Nazi sympathizer, he immediately calls him “polite and low-key.” When writing of Hovater as a self-described “social media villain” who occasionally appears on alt-right podcasts, Fausset adds that “his Midwestern manners would please anyone’s mother.”

Even the profile’s title suggests that Hovater is a charming character, despite his views on race and white supremacy: “In America’s Heartland, the Nazi Sympathizer Next Door.”

There is a problem with making a man who believes that races should be separated seem likable. It suggests that Hovater’s politeness and all-American love for “Seinfeld” can make his hateful views more tolerable.

Many took to Twitter to remind the Times that being a self-described Nazi sympathizer isn’t as harmless as the profile made it seem.


Denzicam James"
'Nazis: "We want to kill all minorities!"

White journalists at the New York Times: "Ok, but please tell us more about your favorite food and show."'

Matthew Chapmen
"After today, I’m convinced more than ever that the New York Times needs more women and more minorities on their editorial board and senior management.

A human interest piece on a literal, actual Nazi would never have made it off the drawing board in a diverse, mixed newsroom."



Readers Accuse Us of Normalizing a Nazi Sympathizer; We Respond



The Nazi Next Door Is Real—and Unspectacular - Commentary
Commentary Magazine is an anti Trump conservative Jewish Publication

Noah Rothman wrote:
Among the criticisms of this piece offered by liberals like Quartz editor Indrani Sen and Vox.com’s Ezra Klein was that a gauzy portrayal of a neo-Nazi seemed to be the profile’s only purpose. “[I]t doesn’t add anything to our understanding of modern Nazis,” Klein offered.

But it did.

The article did not begin and end with an exploration of the items on the Hovaters’ wedding registry. It delved into both Hovater and his network’s thinking regarding how they intend to integrate into acceptable society. It was a deeply disturbing portrayal of a racist movement that is beginning to eschew shock tactics in favor of infiltration and the persuasion of what the profile’s subject called “normal people.”

It described Hovater’s social media habits, which are shared by much of the alt-right—a useful detail for those who may be interested in preventing white nationalists from blending into society without a hitch. The profile explored Hovater’s reading, music tastes, and the evolution of his political thinking. It detailed his affinity for Vladimir Putin, his hatred for the press, and his disgust with United States as it is currently constituted. If you’re interested in identifying neo-Nazis in the wild, this is all useful information. The piece also described Hovater’s life at home, where he minced garlic, cooed over his cats, and talked about having children with his future wife. For the Times’ critics, this was unacceptable. “That evil is also banal is not new,” Klein quipped. Not so. Apparently, for those who were scandalized by this profile, it is.

Undergirding the left’s revulsion over the “normalization” of an American Nazi is the idea that some—not them, of course, but the vulgar multitudes—will be tempted to embrace white supremacy because a welder in Ohio enjoys “Twin Peaks.” This is not prudence but pretension. These liberal critics imagine themselves enlightened enough to know evil when they see it in print, but not you.

This is a censorious impulse. It represents the left’s troubling allergy to moral complexity. A man can have cats, buy barbecue sauce, love and be loved like the rest of us, and also be a beast of unspeakable prejudice and cruelty.

Increasingly and to its detriment, the left in the age of Trump has convinced itself that its adversaries are, or ought to be, one-dimensional monstrosities with a monomaniacal devotion to undermining all that they hold dear. The New York Times should not be catering to children who lash out when their adversaries are depicted as fully formed human beings. The objection here is not to reportorial standards at the Times but to a set of facts the objectors cannot stand.


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LoveNotHate
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29 Nov 2017, 7:57 pm

His argument is that "white males" are a persecuted group.

He says, "They pay all the taxes, and those taxes are used to disenfranchise them from education, work, and the system at large".
https://www.tradworker.org/2016/02/liberaltarian/

He laments: "Transgender rights, gay marriage, open borders, closing the gender gap, and minority outreach".

So, he feels like society is not caring about him.


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29 Nov 2017, 9:35 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
His argument is that "white males" are a persecuted group.

He says, "They pay all the taxes, and those taxes are used to disenfranchise them from education, work, and the system at large".
https://www.tradworker.org/2016/02/liberaltarian/

He laments: "Transgender rights, gay marriage, open borders, closing the gender gap, and minority outreach".

So, he feels like society is not caring about him.


Just because he's convinced himself about that doesn't mean it's true. I'm a straight white male, and I can tell you, in no way am I being persecuted - - and neither is he.


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30 Nov 2017, 10:01 am

I'm no fan of this guy's beliefs - I think he's a pathetic clown. But I don't agree with this sentiment that we should stifle and censor viewpoints like his because all we're doing is making it look "forbidden" and "intriguing" to minds who may take to these kinds of ideas.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. The best way to battle crappy ideas and philosophies is to put them out in the open and expose them for what they are. If you look at things people tried to censor - horror comics of the 50s, rock n roll music, violent movies, violent video games, rap, etc - it only gave them a "cool" factor. We don't want to give white supremacy a "cool" factor, so just expose these guys for the losers that they are.

Also, Antifa and any other groups that think they have the right to assault people because of their beliefs (regardless of how awful their beliefs are) are equally scummy.



kraftiekortie
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30 Nov 2017, 11:57 am

We have to "stifle" certain views---like those which espouse genocide.

We have to have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc.....but we must not let things run amok.

Giving freedom to white nationalists makes it seem like we're running amok.

We don't have the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theater when there's no fire.



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30 Nov 2017, 12:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to "stifle" certain views---like those which espouse genocide.

We have to have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc.....but we must not let things run amok.

Giving freedom to white nationalists makes it seem like we're running amok.

We don't have the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theater when there's no fire.


The "fire in a crowded theater" example doesn't really apply, because having white nationalist (or any other bigoted) views is not necessarily calling people to violence or anything criminal. In theory a person can be incredibly racist but keep it bottled up inside and never really have any effect on the group they are racist against. A KKK member hates black people and refuses to associate with them... it's a sad situation, but is he committing a crime by refusing to have black friends?

As far as views espousing genocide go... if someone has these views, I would prefer them to be out in the open with them so people can choose not to involve themselves with these individuals. If you keep views like that in the underground, they actually have a chance to grow. But white nationalists and racists do not necessarily agree with genocide.

I don't like the thought of picking and choosing what ideas people are legally allowed to have. Acting out against others and encouraging criminal behaviour is an entirely different thing.



kraftiekortie
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30 Nov 2017, 12:34 pm

In a way, I also believe in peoples' views being "aired out."

But white nationalist/Klan rallies tend to cause many problems.



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30 Nov 2017, 1:59 pm

The right to hate speech is not the topic under discussion. SCOTUS unanimously upheld that hate speech is protected speech just this year.

What is under discussion is SHOULD the media or any of us for that matter describe Nazis as anything but pure evil or discuss any non evil aspect about them. I agree with the Commentary writer that we should note that Nazis have "normal" sides of them. To me personally those beliefs trump anything else about them, it makes them evil people. Evil people do have non evil or good parts to them. To self censor knowledge of this is counterproductive because if the threat is poorly understood, the solutions to ease this problem is more likely to be faulty.

Not just the left with Nazis, conservatives have been guilty of making jihadists cartoonist evil beings instead of humans with complications.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 30 Nov 2017, 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

adifferentname
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30 Nov 2017, 2:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have to "stifle" certain views---like those which espouse genocide.


Stifle or educate? Forcing people into silence doesn't make the problem go away.

Quote:
We have to have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc.....but we must not let things run amok.


There should be no "but" beyond that speech which is already subject to libel/slander laws.

Quote:
Giving freedom to white nationalists makes it seem like we're running amok.


Now you seem to be advocating punishment of thought crimes.

Quote:
We don't have the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theater when there's no fire.


As I've pointed out on here already (on multiple occasions), that's false. Schenk vs The United States was overturned in 1969. For speech to violate the law it must directly incite "imminent lawless action".

In other words, it would only be illegal to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre if you were e.g. instructing someone to discharge a weapon.



kraftiekortie
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30 Nov 2017, 2:48 pm

Yes, I do believe in education more than censorship.

What is the origin of the neo-Nazi views? I sense much of it is because of some sort of alienation. Some sort of discontent. A feeling of hopelessness.

Of course I don't advocate punishing a White Nationalist for being a White Nationalist, in and of itself. That would be akin for punishing somebody for having pedophilic thoughts not turned into actions.

I do believe a person shouting "fire" in a theater when there is no fire,while causing a riot and frenzy, could probably be prosecuted for "inciting to riot" in New York State. Whether a conviction is likely is another matter.



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30 Nov 2017, 2:59 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
What is the origin of the neo-Nazi views?

He says, "White males" ... "pay all the taxes, and those taxes are used to disenfranchise them from education, work, and the system at large".

That's why he's a white nationalist.


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30 Nov 2017, 3:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, I do believe in education more than censorship.


How about instead of?

Quote:
I do believe a person shouting "fire" in a theater when there is no fire,while causing a riot and frenzy, could probably be prosecuted for "inciting to riot" in New York State. Whether a conviction is likely is another matter.


Even if that's the case, that one narrow and specific application of law does not justify restricting speech we disagree with.

"Contempt of court" would be a better example in support of your position.



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01 Dec 2017, 1:31 am

...The Atlantic Monthly this month has a similar cover story about an American Nazi/alt-righter the one they profiled had led a more exotic life; he'd been kind of a backpacking hippie type before heading rightward.


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