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The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 11:59 am

My feeling is that it shouldn't happen. If people have sex they should be aware of the consequences and the possibility that a pill won't work or a condom will break, and it isn't different from killing a newborn, because you made a mistake. If someone decides to take a risk, they consequences should land squarely on them, rather than killing an innocent being before it even gets a chance.
The only time someone could be exempt is if the pregnant woman is a rape victim- and even then, it still feels like there are better ways. I have known someone whose mother was a rape victim and instead of aborting the baby they kept them and gave them up for adoption instead. That person is now one of the nicest people I know.

These are just my feelings. What are your own beleifs, or rebuttals to mine?


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Piobaire
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15 Jan 2018, 12:10 pm

Abortion is not "killing a newborn"; it's excising a zygote. Read some biology.
Don't like abortion? Don't have one.
Don't have a uterus? STFU



The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 12:12 pm

Piobaire wrote:
Abortion is not "killing a newborn"; it's excising a zygote. Read some biology.
Don't like abortion? Don't have one.
Don't have a uterus? STFU

Its an analogy. You take it too literally.
Its killing something before it has a chance to live. Thats not something I agree with.
This is for a reasonable discussion, not your intolerant rantings


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Tim_Tex
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15 Jan 2018, 12:17 pm

I don't think it's appropriate in *every* situation, but I can't support any restrictions on it.


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The Musings Of The Lost
Toucan
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15 Jan 2018, 12:19 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I don't think it's appropriate in *every* situation, but I can't support any restrictions on it.

Elaborate?
Which situations do you feel are acceptable and which are not?


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Piobaire
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15 Jan 2018, 12:23 pm

Quote:
Its an analogy. You take it too literally.


Quote:
it isn't different from killing a newborn...killing an innocent being


You're the one employing inflammatory "baby killer" hyperbole.
Don't try to gaslight me.



Piobaire
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15 Jan 2018, 12:24 pm

1.6 million children in America are homeless.
400,540 American children are in foster care.
16.4 million American children live in poverty; one in five.
16 million American children struggle with hunger; one in five.
Every year, 3.8 million American children are victims of child abuse. 1,640 are killed.
Every year, 10,000 American children are shot.
2,600 of them are killed.
Globally, a child dies every ten seconds from hunger or preventable disease, while eight individuals hoard more wealth than 4 billion people.
Over 90% of the casualties of modern warfare are civilian. During the last ten years, 2 million children have been killed, 4-5 million children disabled, 12 million children left homeless, more than one million children orphaned, and 10 million children psychologically traumatized.
Anthropogenic climate change, the concomitant Anthropocene Mass Extinction Event, overexploitation of resources and overpopulation will certainly result in the very near future in a Malthusian Check to the human population beyond most human comprehension, perhaps even extinction as a species.
Considering how catastrophically and irreparably we have betrayed our children and all future generations, I personally cannot imagine a rational argument for bringing one more into this world.



Piobaire
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15 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

Quote:
Which situations do you feel are acceptable and which are not?


Abortion should be available universally, on demand and without apology.



The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 12:35 pm

Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Which situations do you feel are acceptable and which are not?


Abortion should be available universally, on demand and without apology.


I was not asking you


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The Musings Of The Lost
Toucan
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15 Jan 2018, 12:36 pm

Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Its an analogy. You take it too literally.


Quote:
it isn't different from killing a newborn...killing an innocent being


You're the one employing inflammatory "baby killer" hyperbole.
Don't try to gaslight me.

Because thats what I feel it is.
I quite clearly stated that these were my own feelings and nothing more, you instead act like I am forcinf my beleifs on you

Edit for spelling mistakes*


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Last edited by The Musings Of The Lost on 15 Jan 2018, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Musings Of The Lost
Toucan
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15 Jan 2018, 12:38 pm

Piobaire wrote:
1.6 million children in America are homeless.
400,540 American children are in foster care.
16.4 million American children live in poverty; one in five.
16 million American children struggle with hunger; one in five.
Every year, 3.8 million American children are victims of child abuse. 1,640 are killed.
Every year, 10,000 American children are shot.
2,600 of them are killed.
Globally, a child dies every ten seconds from hunger or preventable disease, while eight individuals hoard more wealth than 4 billion people.
Over 90% of the casualties of modern warfare are civilian. During the last ten years, 2 million children have been killed, 4-5 million children disabled, 12 million children left homeless, more than one million children orphaned, and 10 million children psychologically traumatized.
Anthropogenic climate change, the concomitant Anthropocene Mass Extinction Event, overexploitation of resources and overpopulation will certainly result in the very near future in a Malthusian Check to the human population beyond most human comprehension, perhaps even extinction as a species.
Considering how catastrophically and irreparably we have betrayed our children and all future generations, I personally cannot imagine a rational argument for bringing one more into this world.

If thats the way you feel why not pass a law organizing the euthanasia of said children, if it is so bad its better to die than to live?


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XFilesGeek
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15 Jan 2018, 1:37 pm

I'm 100% pro-choice.

The rights of already-born, developed women trump those of "potential people."

I'm a woman, not a walking baby factory. If I get raped and get pregnant, I'm flushing the little motherf__ker.


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MissChess
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15 Jan 2018, 1:48 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I'm 100% pro-choice.

The rights of already-born, developed women trump those of "potential people."

I'm a woman, not a walking baby factory. If I get raped and get pregnant, I'm flushing the little motherf__ker.

Absolutely, and that procedure should be safe, readily available, reasonably priced, and covered by medical insurance regardless of what an employer thinks.

If men were the ones who had to carry pregnancies, birth control and "morning after" pills would be free, come in multiple flavors, and dispensed in dishes on the bar next to the pretzels & beer nuts.


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15 Jan 2018, 1:49 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Which situations do you feel are acceptable and which are not?


Abortion should be available universally, on demand and without apology.


I was not asking you

Open thread on an open forum. If you want a private conversation, there's a feature for that.


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modaldragon
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15 Jan 2018, 1:56 pm

I personally think that there's no use getting angry about abortion no matter what your opinion. Personally, I'm against abortion, but only slightly against it. I think that people should be careful and remember to use protection, but if someone is raped then they should be allowed an abortion definitely, and if someone realises that they badly messed up and deeply regrets getting pregnant, then fine they could be allowed an abortion too (eg: if the baby was causing them severe mental health problems such as thoughts of suicide or serious self-harm). I'm never going to get pregnant because I'm not sexually attracted to men, but if I were raped I would consider continuing the pregnancy and giving the baby up for adoption because I am slightly against abortion.

The main problem in the pro-life/pro-choice argument is not a difference of morals: it's a difference of faith/beliefs. Pro-choice people aren't trying to kill babies, they truly believe that life starts before birth. Likewise, pro-life people aren't anti-woman: they truly believe that abortion is murder, as their belief tells them that life starts at conception. Overall, there's no way to really know when life starts- people have to trust their faith - and that will always cause disagreements. Personally, I don't know whether or not life starts before birth, so I think it's better to be safe than sorry, unless there's a good reason to allow abortion. The UK has a good system in my opinion: abortion is allowed if two doctors can agree that the mother's life or mental health is at serious risk (that's a very simplified version). The problem with UK law on abortion is that children who are likely to have Downs' syndrome or other disabilities can be aborted at any time during the pregnancy purely based on their disability, which I strongly disagree with.