Page 4 of 5 [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

pete413
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 5 Oct 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: neverland

19 Sep 2018, 4:08 pm

sly279 wrote:
What do we do when 80% or more of the popcant work cause of automation?
Retail and fast food is automating and they make up a lot of jobs in the USA. They building lawyers ai, consoling ai, mechanics will be replaced by robots. Truck divers are going be replaced by self driven trucks. Every single job besides ceos are replaceable by technology. So we either pay everyone of those 80% income or we kill them all in a mass genocide. I bet the elite will pick the 2nd


They will take over the CEO's jobs as well.....

http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/01



Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1021
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

19 Sep 2018, 4:14 pm

The resources and technologies exist to be able to sustain everybody and not leave anybody to poverty; the main problem is the «corrupt» mentality of those control-freaks who want more for themselves and less for everybody else... (this was mentioned by George Carlin which one can look up for themselves; should be plenty of YouTube videos and lots of people in the comments-section who've done their homework to confirm its validity).

Food can be automatically grown with the now-existing technology. Electricity could also be easily produced/generated for everybody without cost but «greedy banksters» who OWN all you SLAVES don't care about you (once again, listen to George Carlin, and read the comments-section). Anyway... this is an example of automatic food-growing technology...


AspE wrote:
People want to work. We have an allegedly booming economy but increasing automation, and increasing income inequality. Agricultural corporations grow our food. We can afford to let that money count for something, and not just let it reinforce an elite ruling class.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Last edited by Ban-Dodger on 19 Sep 2018, 6:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

pete413
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 5 Oct 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: neverland

19 Sep 2018, 4:17 pm

Left agenda? Right agenda?
How about robot overlord agenda!
Let us bow to our silicon masters fellow coppertops :P
Automate everything!

"I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."



techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,610
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

19 Sep 2018, 4:56 pm

I'm going to add:

For those who probably aren't going to look into Haidt and Lukianoff, I'm guessing most, I'll try to give a quick distillation:

They're suggesting that a whole confluence of factors is bringing the current situation into focus:

- Academia has been on something like an exponential curve in the last thirty or forty years, going from 2:1 liberal to conservative toward 5:1 somewhere in the 1990's and it's looking like it's heading out toward ranges between 20:1 to 40:1 in different departments partly based on the sort of cultures that come about when a super-majority forms. The problem Jonathan points to often with this is that higher education vets ideas through institutional disconfirmation - ie. the vigorous review and destruction of bad ideas, a process which tends to largely break down if a particular school becomes an echo chamber.

- 'I-Gen', ie. the generation who got social media in their early teens has had a very different adjustment to the world than previous generations. Jonathan Haidt's has suggested that the problems with free speech aren't happening so much at commuter schools, sometimes at state schools but less often, but rather mostly in the top 100 Ivy League settings. Social media and student to student communication has brought about a situation where students can and will go after faculty for bringing up or teaching topics in the class room that cause discomfort or offense, the teachers are increasingly afraid of the handful of students (really a very loud/vocal minority), and the other students largely stay quiet as well because they know that these people can and will pile on them and have the capacity to put them through hell.

- Part of the wilder leftist content that's going around is really students sharing half-baked ideas, not necessarily what they're being taught as often as sharing their own interpretations of it.


A few of the root cultural problems in this case:

- As a culture we're still trying to figure out how to handle social media and the kinds of social and political dynamics it leads to and as of yet we're behind the curve and reacting to these problems.

- It's been demonstrated that young adults are actually being taught the opposite of coping mechanisms, rather everything they're being encouraged to do in terms of identifying their discomforts and seeking help for them (particularly when the causes aren't egregious) are increasingly making them psychologically fragile.

- After the 1990's adult supervision of children drastically increased, in some cases by law, and this has had negative impacts on child development.


It's hard to say what the right answers will be. My guess, with the academic political imbalance already out there in the public discourse we likely will have increasing numbers of center-right individuals finding a calling to academia. Academia already has a lot of problems with the student loan bubble and its likely that in the next several years we could see the financial aspect as well as the political issues accelerate the move to online universities. As for the social media problems - that's even tougher to call. It could be that new and catchy platforms where everyone won't see everyone or where people have a much firmer grip on how far and wide personal information can go will develop that makes the sort of internet gang pile-ons a lot more difficult to develop.

I also have to wonder, much like people have been saying that the cheapness and click-baitiness of the mainstream media lately has been due to them being on their last gasp as something of a dying power structure, if these could be precursors to the death of the formal academy. If it is the later that could be deeply troubling for our country's future and we'd have to really think quickly about how to safeguard the quality of education.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


pete413
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 5 Oct 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: neverland

19 Sep 2018, 6:04 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm going to add:

For those who probably aren't going to look into Haidt and Lukianoff, I'm guessing most, I'll try to give a quick distillation:

They're suggesting that a whole confluence of factors is bringing the current situation into focus:

- Academia has been on something like an exponential curve in the last thirty or forty years, going from 2:1 liberal to conservative toward 5:1 somewhere in the 1990's and it's looking like it's heading out toward ranges between 20:1 to 40:1 in different departments partly based on the sort of cultures that come about when a super-majority forms. The problem Jonathan points to often with this is that higher education vets ideas through institutional disconfirmation - ie. the vigorous review and destruction of bad ideas, a process which tends to largely break down if a particular school becomes an echo chamber.

- 'I-Gen', ie. the generation who got social media in their early teens has had a very different adjustment to the world than previous generations. Jonathan Haidt's has suggested that the problems with free speech aren't happening so much at commuter schools, sometimes at state schools but less often, but rather mostly in the top 100 Ivy League settings. Social media and student to student communication has brought about a situation where students can and will go after faculty for bringing up or teaching topics in the class room that cause discomfort or offense, the teachers are increasingly afraid of the handful of students (really a very loud/vocal minority), and the other students largely stay quiet as well because they know that these people can and will pile on them and have the capacity to put them through hell.

- Part of the wilder leftist content that's going around is really students sharing half-baked ideas, not necessarily what they're being taught as often as sharing their own interpretations of it.


A few of the root cultural problems in this case:

- As a culture we're still trying to figure out how to handle social media and the kinds of social and political dynamics it leads to and as of yet we're behind the curve and reacting to these problems.

- It's been demonstrated that young adults are actually being taught the opposite of coping mechanisms, rather everything they're being encouraged to do in terms of identifying their discomforts and seeking help for them (particularly when the causes aren't egregious) are increasingly making them psychologically fragile.

- After the 1990's adult supervision of children drastically increased, in some cases by law, and this has had negative impacts on child development.


It's hard to say what the right answers will be. My guess, with the academic political imbalance already out there in the public discourse we likely will have increasing numbers of center-right individuals finding a calling to academia. Academia already has a lot of problems with the student loan bubble and its likely that in the next several years we could see the financial aspect as well as the political issues accelerate the move to online universities. As for the social media problems - that's even tougher to call. It could be that new and catchy platforms where everyone won't see everyone or where people have a much firmer grip on how far and wide personal information can go will develop that makes the sort of internet gang pile-ons a lot more difficult to develop.

I also have to wonder, much like people have been saying that the cheapness and click-baitiness of the mainstream media lately has been due to them being on their last gasp as something of a dying power structure, if these could be precursors to the death of the formal academy. If it is the later that could be deeply troubling for our country's future and we'd have to really think quickly about how to safeguard the quality of education.


So? what are these "essential" right wing ideas folks see necessary to impress upon college kids? Why does it even matter so much? I really don't get what the big righty gripe is. OMG! gender studies and climate change , the world is ending!! !! ! Students can't think for themselves, they follow their teachers like sheep. .... go start your own right wing school and stop complaining. geez.



techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,610
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

19 Sep 2018, 6:46 pm

pete413 wrote:
So? what are these "essential" right wing ideas folks see necessary to impress upon college kids?

I don't even think they're necessarily right-wing ideas, it's more like any side left to their own and only with their own drinks their own koolaid, largely because as human beings we're absolutely terrible at catching our own confirmation biases.

As far as specific ideas that need to be impressed on college kids I don't think any of these are right-wing, they're technically liberal in the Enlightenment sense but it seems like those who are following collectivist/identitarian tendencies (well known on the collectivist side of the left but increasingly in the growing authoritarian right) have deep problems with them. Ideas like having debate and the marketplace of ideas sort out issues, ideas such as not jumping on social theories unless they're supported by evidence.


pete413 wrote:
Why does it even matter so much?

We'd have to expand the conversation. If I wrote pages as to why a lot of people are worried that the values of the Enlightenment are getting called into question no one would read it, if I just said 'pay more attention' I'd just start a snark contest. That first Jonathan Haidt video I posted has a lot of good stuff in it, if you haven't heard of him he's left of center, if you haven't heard this before (it seems like a lot of people in this thread haven't) he's not the right's token liberal on this issue or anything like it - rather there are a lot of liberals and even leftists deeply concerned with what's happening right now and I'd include Sam Harris, Bill Maher, Bret and Eric Weinstein, Brenden O'Niel, Douglas Murray, and a lot of other highly intelligent people.

pete413 wrote:
I really don't get what the big righty gripe is. OMG! gender studies and climate change , the world is ending!! ! ! ! Students can't think for themselves, they follow their teachers like sheep. .... go start your own right wing school and stop complaining. geez.

I'd say maybe stop worrying about what you think right-wingers are saying. The right having a moral panic has no impact on whether or not something's happening, it just means that their interpretation of it is likely to be tribal and highly politicized.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,610
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

19 Sep 2018, 7:06 pm

Also something kind of funny about Jonathan Haidt's 'The Righteous Mind' which he wrote back in 2012 about religion, Richard Dawkins Tweeted a few months ago that he was reading it and declared it to be a seminal work on evolution and sociology - Jonathan had to somewhat politely warn him that he might not like what's in chapter 11, ie. he took a few jabs at the new atheists including Dawkins around that point of the book.

I suppose the point being - we have academics increasingly chiming in on the 'free speech on campuses' issue, that it is a problem, that it is now spilling over into the corporate world, and colleges are increasingly turning out a generation who don't value free speech nearly as much as earlier generations. Part of this likely isn't entirely the colleges fault, these problems may indeed have been well on their way in development with these kids all through elementary and high school, that's quite likely the case. Some schools do teach and promote critical thinking and some, like the University of Chicago, have stated that any students trying to shout down a speaker or prevent them from airing their ideas will be expelled. Others are closer to the extreme of fully caving in, assigning safe-spaces, providing services for those whose feelings have been hurt by ideas they disagree with, and when these kids go for job interviews they won't have a prayer - it's like society failed them and continued to fail them right up through the time where they now owe $50-100K in student loans, which not even bankrupcy can clear, and they're too out of touch to make ends meet in the real world.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 18,754
Location: Long Island, New York

19 Sep 2018, 7:08 pm

pete413 wrote:
nephets wrote:
There is a strong left-wing Agenda in pretty much any organization funded by the state, which of course includes state-funded education. This is NOT because of the inherent truthfulness of left-wing dogma, which in the main, is infantile nonsense, it is simply a question of money. The right generally favors small government and self-reliance and that of course kills state funded jobs. The justifications of the left for huge state organizations boil down to an extended plea not to have to go out into the world and find a job in the private sector. Many of the denizens of academia are of course utterly unemployable in the real world. Does anybody think there is a demand for someone who is an expert in Gender Studies, without a state subsidy, for example? Of course not. The same can be said for countless other subjects taught across Europe and North America. There is, however, a demand for Engineers, Chemists, Biologists etc., which the First World does not produce enough of and has been importing from outside for decades now. I speak as someone with two History Degrees, who has taught at University level and works in the State Sector. When I was working at a University, a good 80% of the staff were left-wing.


Another phobe butt-hurt about having to take a gender studies class, get over it dude.


I am pretty anti SJW and often appalled at what is going on in higher education but I am unaware of any school where Gender Studies courses are mandated.


_________________
Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 18,754
Location: Long Island, New York

19 Sep 2018, 7:09 pm

pete413 wrote:
I'm sick of the conservatives whining about the left academia.
Go back to your blue collar slave jobs and shut up! The bible is all the learnin' you need. pfft.

Stereotyping much?


_________________
Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity


pete413
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 5 Oct 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: neverland

19 Sep 2018, 8:05 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
pete413 wrote:
I'm sick of the conservatives whining about the left academia.
Go back to your blue collar slave jobs and shut up! The bible is all the learnin' you need. pfft.

Stereotyping much?


Yeah, so? This is the internet, it's all bs anyway, nothing matters anymore. It's all useless words. Something to do to waste time because I have no social life and as you can see, don't have much of a chance of ever getting one unless I spontaneously gain social skills in isolation. Some of us here are just alone and miserable, autism does not work out so "awesome" for all. Or maybe I shouldn't blame autism, I'm just jerk, gave up, I'm old now, hopefully cigarettes will do me in.

I just have attitude against conservative types, can't help it. Don't like 'em, not one bit. That's not as a "liberal", just me. The "right" can suck it.

Whatever, it's all just internet nonsense. As if any of you care, lol. As if this "debate" will change anything or any minds. This really is all a waste of time. But that's all i have.

Look at it this way, i give others a chance to look down their noses and get a sense of superiority, enjoy :P
I can't help being a loser, some of us are just cursed like this I guess.

Who else can I stereotype? It's all I know about the world.



techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,610
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

19 Sep 2018, 8:09 pm

I've taken a slightly different reaction to the woes and alienation of autism/asperger's.

I deeply enjoy reading anything I can get my hands on about philosophic history, the human condition, psychology, and I also really enjoy watching the world *not* burn regardless of how many NT's I know are the sort of dutiful lemmings who'd march the project of civilization right off a cliff if social conformity edified their doing so.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 19 Sep 2018, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,299

19 Sep 2018, 8:10 pm

sly279 wrote:
What do we do when 80% or more of the popcant work cause of automation?
Retail and fast food is automating and they make up a lot of jobs in the USA. They building lawyers ai, consoling ai, mechanics will be replaced by robots. Truck divers are going be replaced by self driven trucks. Every single job besides ceos are replaceable by technology. So we either pay everyone of those 80% income or we kill them all in a mass genocide. I bet the elite will pick the 2nd

Why is it so important to have a job? They can get a basic income so they don't have to worry about poverty, and use that time to acquire skills that are in demand. Like with a free college education. Someone has to design all that technology. And so what if people don't work. This is a problem of primate resentments, not a real economic issue. We gave away billions to banks to stimulate the economy, wouldn't this accomplish much the same thing, and help ordinary people too?



Mythos
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 457
Location: England

20 Sep 2018, 12:54 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Left-Wing Agenda, is it ? Right-Wingers, you say ? Well, from what I see, the whole entire system is a Bird-Brained agenda being promoted everywhere. The Left Wing and the Right Wing are just two sides of the same BIRD after all. Researching two sides of an issue ? Try researching ALL aspects of an issue. Sheesh...
Image
Left and right is a real, tried and true method to ascertain economic and social positions in relation to the rest. I believe it arose following the French Revolution.

So far left would be extreme centralisation, moderate left would be socialist policy or regulation of a free market economy, moderate right would be capitalist economy with some deregulation, and far right would be an absolute every man for himself scenario with protectionist values thrown in to defend nationalist interest. There are more complicated elements also but I think I covered the basics.

I don't think there's a better way to determine one's political stance, personally.



Mythos
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 457
Location: England

20 Sep 2018, 1:18 am

nephets wrote:
There is a strong left-wing Agenda in pretty much any organization funded by the state, which of course includes state-funded education.

Not necessarily. Checks and balances are usually utilised to ensure that, for example, the media doesn't run outright fake stories unless they disclose they are partisan beforehand.

This is NOT because of the inherent truthfulness of left-wing dogma, which in the main, is infantile nonsense, it is simply a question of money.

I see that your argument is that you don't agree with liberalism so feel the need to criticise anything that supports it, be it the education system or the news. Do you have evidence that this is the case?

The right generally favors small government and self-reliance and that of course kills state funded jobs.

So, basically anarchocapitalism. I'm sure we'd do fine without public services such as, say, the police, paramedics, firefighters, public transport, an education system, etc.

The justifications of the left for huge state organizations boil down to an extended plea not to have to go out into the world and find a job in the private sector.

I fail to see how becoming an instrument of a capitalist machine of many is in any way productive to society. I'd rather see more doctors, nurses, firefighters, teachers, professors, researchers, and others who benefit society as a whole than another stockbroker or bank clerk who, in all honesty, contribute essentially nothing.

Even then, university does prepare you for private sector work. I'm hoping to study cybersecurity as it is my chosen path, and would likely land me in a job with a company (perhaps even a high profile one). Public sector is also possible which is good because I have the choice.

Also, welfare is for disabled people as well. The kind that are simply incapacitated to the point of being seen as useless by private sector companies. They deserve a chance.


Many of the denizens of academia are of course utterly unemployable in the real world.

Again, cybersecurity (approximately £80K - £120K a year) does not sound like unemployable to me. I'm not saying I'll make that much (I should be so lucky) but it's just an example of how university can be useful. Oh, and good luck finding a position like that without a degree. Hell, I don't even think a degree would be enough.

Does anybody think there is a demand for someone who is an expert in Gender Studies, without a state subsidy, for example? Of course not. The same can be said for countless other subjects taught across Europe and North America.

Yes, most people in gender studies and other humanities will likely go on to social care work amongst others. There's definitely a demand for those.

There is, however, a demand for Engineers, Chemists, Biologists etc., which the First World does not produce enough of and has been importing from outside for decades now.

All of which you can study at university. I don't understand the point here.

I speak as someone with two History Degrees, who has taught at University level and works in the State Sector. When I was working at a University, a good 80% of the staff were left-wing.

I'm not sure how you would ascertain the political affiliation of the university staff unless you had the numbers to hand, which is unlikely for individual universities.

Even so, who cares? 80% are liberal, does that show anything? Most people, such as myself, leave politics at their front door. Nobody I know of discusses politics besides a passing remark. Statistics don't necessarily prove outright bias.




RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,187
Location: Adelaide, Australia

23 Sep 2018, 9:47 pm

Seff wrote:
It is often claimed that academics are ‘brainwashing’ students with a ‘leftist agenda’ but the truth of the matter is that basically higher education teaches you to question things and research both sides of an argument before coming to a conclusion.
Them pinko lefties always questioning authority! /sarcasm


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short