Page 1 of 9 [ 143 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

thinkinginpictures
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310

03 Mar 2018, 4:43 pm

http://basicincome.org/basic-income/

Read this, if you don't know what it is, better read it so we don't have to cover yet another thread after thread on how a welfare society should pay for basic income, what basic income is and what it covers.

But to sum it up it is basically a sum of money that is given to every citizen as a right (like a right to free speech, right to assembly, right to vote etc.). There are several versions of Basic Income. One is that every citizen gets a sum of money regardless of whether you work or not. Another version is one where if you already earn money, you don't get the payment, or your Basic Income gets reduced by say 30 % of what you already earn. This leaves more money for those who have no other income.

Finland is currently doing experiments with Basic Income. Basically it is unemployment benefits but without requirement to work or find a job. Initial tests reveal it works. It doesn't keep people unemployed, quite the contrary people are more motivated to find a job because they are not stressed over finding a job or get food on the table.

People argue that only those incapable of work should get money without work requirements, like disability benefits. But the truth is that disability benefits around the world has been cut and work requirements are already in place.

Google "Atos death toll" and you'll see just how UK is currently killing off disabled people by work requirements despite doctors warnings against it. Several thousands of disabled people have been killed during these work requirements.

The same thing currently happens in Denmark and Sweden, where they used to treat disabled people with care and respect but today they are actually demanding that they work despite work being counter-productive because of their disabilities or illnesses.

This is why I suggest Basic Income should be a citizen right. Like the right to vote or assembly or free speech.

- Because the social welfare system does not work at all.



fluffysaurus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,723
Location: England

03 Mar 2018, 5:09 pm

I support the idea of a universal basic income.

Your comment about the UK is misleading. People have died since being assessed as able to work but a much larger number died since being assessed as unable to work and allowed to remain on the benefit. The way in which the assessments have been done have been recognised as inflexible and overly harsh and the system is going through some big overhauls.



thinkinginpictures
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310

03 Mar 2018, 5:19 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
The way in which the assessments have been done have been recognised as inflexible and overly harsh and the system is going through some big overhauls.


They are currently reviewing the disability benefits reform in Denmark, and if the UK handles this as the government does in Denmark it will only be minor tweaks but nothing that really overhauls the worst effects of the reforms.

I believe an apology is the least disabled people should demand from the respective parliaments of Denmark/UK/Other nations.

Because at least in Denmark, they were warned about this reform from various experts.



Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,592

03 Mar 2018, 5:35 pm

I disagree taking something from someone else is not your right.



VIDEODROME
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,691

03 Mar 2018, 5:53 pm

I think it's necessary to consider this since we'll see even more use of Automation in the future. As Bill Gates says "Tax the Robots".

My hope would be we figure out how to transition to the Automation economy handing off really terrible jobs to the robots. Humans can stay home with more leisure time as well as not having people spend hours of their lives just sitting in traffic for their work commutes.



Mudboy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,441
Location: Hiding in plain sight

03 Mar 2018, 6:23 pm

If a person is able of body and mind, they need to get a job. Otherwise they are a depraved parasite, consuming charity that is intended for orphans, the disabled, and the elderly. Do ticks and lice have a basic right to live on your body too?


_________________
When I lose an obsession, I feel lost until I find another.
Aspie score: 155 of 200
NT score: 49 of 200


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

03 Mar 2018, 6:33 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
I think it's necessary to consider this since we'll see even more use of Automation in the future. As Bill Gates says "Tax the Robots".

My hope would be we figure out how to transition to the Automation economy handing off really terrible jobs to the robots. Humans can stay home with more leisure time as well as not having people spend hours of their lives just sitting in traffic for their work commutes.

People like bill gates will just have us killed. Probably through ww3. The rich will survive in all nations and have robots to see to their needs.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

03 Mar 2018, 6:35 pm

Mudboy wrote:
If a person is able of body and mind, they need to get a job. Otherwise they are a depraved parasite, consuming charity that is intended for orphans, the disabled, and the elderly. Do ticks and lice have a basic right to live on your body too?

This is why aspies like me and others here feel depressed. It makes peoplemlike dragons who is super nice to everyone feel she is a parasite who should die.
How is making others who can’t work feel like crap helpful?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

03 Mar 2018, 6:36 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Google "Atos death toll" and you'll see just how UK is currently killing off disabled people by work requirements despite doctors warnings against it. Several thousands of disabled people have been killed during these work requirements.

The same thing currently happens in Denmark and Sweden, where they used to treat disabled people with care and respect but today they are actually demanding that they work despite work being counter-productive because of their disabilities or illnesses.

This is why I suggest Basic Income should be a citizen right. Like the right to vote or assembly or free speech.

- Because the social welfare system does not work at all.


Advocate for Basic Income for people with disabilities...
Simples...<shrug>

People here in Australia have something called a disability pension...
Don't you guys have this also???



Mudboy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,441
Location: Hiding in plain sight

03 Mar 2018, 6:59 pm

sly279 wrote:
Mudboy wrote:
If a person is able of body and mind, they need to get a job. Otherwise they are a depraved parasite, consuming charity that is intended for orphans, the disabled, and the elderly. Do ticks and lice have a basic right to live on your body too?

This is why aspies like me and others here feel depressed. It makes peoplemlike dragons who is super nice to everyone feel she is a parasite who should die.
How is making others who can’t work feel like crap helpful?

Your reply makes no sense. In the US we have SSI, which is income given to disabled people. Autism is classified as a disability, because it makes people unable to work.


_________________
When I lose an obsession, I feel lost until I find another.
Aspie score: 155 of 200
NT score: 49 of 200


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

03 Mar 2018, 7:38 pm

Mudboy wrote:
Your reply makes no sense. In the US we have SSI, which is income given to disabled people. Autism is classified as a disability, because it makes people unable to work.


You mean *profound* autism "is classified as a disability because it makes people unable to work."
Most people with Aspergers can work effectively, some in a superior manner...



Syd
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,280

03 Mar 2018, 7:39 pm

I work 50 - 60 hours per week and would gladly give a small percentage of that to people who struggle to work.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

03 Mar 2018, 7:41 pm

Syd wrote:
I work 50 - 60 hours per week and would gladly give a small percentage of that to people who struggle to work.


I put my hand up to be first in line...
Send to:
BSB 001
Account number: 000 000 000 001 :mrgreen:



Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

04 Mar 2018, 12:37 am

Has anyone done the maths? How much it would cost per annum and how much the effective tax percentage on workers/corporations would have to be etc. I have a suspicion it would be unworkably expensive.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

04 Mar 2018, 1:56 am

Mudboy wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Mudboy wrote:
If a person is able of body and mind, they need to get a job. Otherwise they are a depraved parasite, consuming charity that is intended for orphans, the disabled, and the elderly. Do ticks and lice have a basic right to live on your body too?

This is why aspies like me and others here feel depressed. It makes peoplemlike dragons who is super nice to everyone feel she is a parasite who should die.
How is making others who can’t work feel like crap helpful?

Your reply makes no sense. In the US we have SSI, which is income given to disabled people. Autism is classified as a disability, because it makes people unable to work.


Aspies are of able body and mind. So according to conservatives we should be able to work and are just lazy parasites. Your post looked identical to conservative posts.

Ssi doesn’t pay a lot it should pay double what it does but conservatives rigged the system so it hasn’t risen much since the 80s despite high inflation of the US dollar leading to high increases in cost of living.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

04 Mar 2018, 1:57 am

Syd wrote:
I work 50 - 60 hours per week and would gladly give a small percentage of that to people who struggle to work.

How do you handle that ? I’d gone crazy.