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Ante
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23 Jun 2005, 7:52 am

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BeeBee
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23 Jun 2005, 9:12 am

AMEN!

People get the government they earn. Freedom isn't free.

BeeBee



Feste-Fenris
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23 Jun 2005, 9:37 am

I vote regularly... and do a bit of advocacy work...

I agree... democracy depends on the people who run it... you, me and the mailman...



monastic
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23 Jun 2005, 12:02 pm

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But we still must not be complacent or give up.


Yes, AntiEverything, I agree.

Complacency is what ultimately caused the Fall of the Roman Empire. We must not give up - we can make a difference!



Papillon
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23 Jun 2005, 1:44 pm

Anti,

I like your proposal. Too bad the majority of all people prefer to let themselves be lead like lambs to the slaughter.

The way things have been going these past few decades all the power and authority has been shifting to the hands of a small priviledged society, resulting in a totalitarian state. Even the most "civilized" countries have been on that trend and it seems to have become especially accellerated since the 9/11 thing. As long as the bulk of the population continue to live like frightened animals, that sort of thing will just continue. George Orwell must have been seeing into the future when he wrote 1984. The only thing wrong is he had the date off by 20 years :wink:

The late Mahatma Ghandi would have certainly agreed with you here. One of his quotes was something like: "We are the change we must desire for".


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Prometheus
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23 Jun 2005, 4:49 pm

I don't beleive in democracy, but I beleive in Republics, which do have democractic tendencies.

The United states is specifically a republic, where the rule of law supersedes the rule of the body public.

Unfortantly, the courts, which enforce the laws are being undermined. . . .


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Psychlone
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23 Jun 2005, 5:37 pm

Prometheus wrote:
I don't beleive in democracy, but I beleive in Republics, which do have democractic tendencies.

The United states is specifically a republic, where the rule of law supersedes the rule of the body public.

Unfortantly, the courts, which enforce the laws are being undermined. . . .


I agree. Give me a Republic over a Democracy any day. :D



Sean
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23 Jun 2005, 11:19 pm

And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

-Thomas Jefferson



Prometheus
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24 Jun 2005, 3:14 pm

I am not a jeffersonian. I am far more Hamilatonian in my views.

*shrugs*

buts lets agree to disagree? :)


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24 Jun 2005, 3:27 pm

We vote them out and or lobby them to change In a republic no need to shoot them. And it sould be a open ended system so you can change as needed to improve.


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Bec
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24 Jun 2005, 9:22 pm

People handing too much power to the government is scary.

Papillon wrote:
The late Mahatma Ghandi would have certainly agreed with you here. One of his quotes was something like: "We are the change we must desire for".


I love Gandhi. The actual quote is: 'We must be the change we wish to see in the world.'



Papillon
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24 Jun 2005, 9:27 pm

Bec,

Thank-you for the correction.


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tomcat_ha
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25 Jun 2005, 12:21 pm

Am i the only one who thinks democracy is overrated?

Sure i prefer it over dictatorships but dictatorships and kingdoms which dont have allot of freedom can still be fine countries to live in.



Prometheus
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25 Jun 2005, 2:19 pm

Quote:
Am i the only one who thinks democracy is overrated?

Sure i prefer it over dictatorships but dictatorships and kingdoms which dont have allot of freedom can still be fine countries to live in.


I agree fully.

Sometimes excesses of democracy can lead to some scary stuff. . . .read "Citizens" by Simon Schama for a illustration.


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ascan
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25 Jun 2005, 3:43 pm

Prometheus wrote:
Quote:
Am i the only one who thinks democracy is overrated?

Sure i prefer it over dictatorships but dictatorships and kingdoms which dont have allot of freedom can still be fine countries to live in.


I agree fully.

Sometimes excesses of democracy can lead to some scary stuff. . . .read "Citizens" by Simon Schama for a illustration.

Democracy comes in different shapes and forms, I don't think it's very accurate to say it's overrated. Perhaps it's more a case of it being misunderstood. It reminds me of this quote:

"Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper"

Democracy itself doesn't make a "free" country. It's the laws pertaining to how it is governed: it's constitution. Though, you Yanks would know more about that kind of stuff than a Brit. :lol: