After death.

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I'd like to know what people with any sort of spiritual or religious belief thinks happens to a person after death, if they kill themselves. Do you think they go to 'hell' automatically? Or is forgiveness possible? What if you attempt suicide and fail, does this still count as a suicide when you do eventually die?

I personally don't think it is useful to speculate on the fate of individual souls. However, I would agree that suicide is sinful but I would be hesitant to deduce individual ramifications from that. This is not to say that I think all will be saved, rather than I think the best approach is to labor under the assumption that all can be saved.

I hope this helps.

If people commit suicide it is a sad event to start with. And is it a sin? I think it is a sin, but one with a lot of circumstances. And probably some other people did not live up to their responsibilities as well. If there is blame, there is plenty to go around...
But the point of certain beliefs, and mine, is forgiveness. There is no 'automatic hell-sentence' or something like that.

Lucky for most people there is Someone else to judge and it is not necessary for ourselves to judge a person who ended up in these circumstances.

The Persona ceases to exist at the moment of death. There is no "after death" for the person who has died. Regardless of how he/she died.

ruveyn

So - theist say they do not know and atheist asserts he KNOWS.

91 and asterisp have pretty well said it.

Well this is just a tad disingenuous, Ruveyn is asserting the obvious; there is absolutely no observable data to suggest that any life-form on this planet has the ability to survive its own death. The theist's are intimating that it is possible to do so, but that they do not know the consequences/punishments meted out by god for choosing to end ones own life. The theists you are refering to are simply saying, we 'believe' in make believe but we are not quite sure of the rules in our imaginary world.

For theists to put forward the god hypothesis, giving absolutely no substantiating evidence, and then call anyone whom dares say "until you provide me with a modicum of evidence I will not give any credence to your hypothesis" arrogant, is quite plainly absurd.

That you continue to believe the bible in complete and utter disregard for modern knowledge, is also absurd. I am not being arrogant, I am simply looking at the available data, which is, by ever increasing increments closing the gaps on God.

@ the OP whatever you believe, the basic scientific knowledge suggests quite clearly that if you cannot maintain (or one cannot be maintained for you) a sufficient level of homeostasis, you will die, and not withstanding any delusions you may have had whilst alive, you will not survive your own death.

There is absolutely no substantiated evidence that goes against the above statement.

Personally I think it is time that humanity grows up and forgoes is childish belief in supernatural monsters.

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 15 May 2011, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think they go in a box in the ground to rot, like nearly everyone else in the West,
only difference being their service might very well have to be closed-casket.


That is all.

Unless, like bin Laden, you're lucky enough to be tossed into the sea to add to the prosperity of the fishing industry.

Henbane - aren't you assuming we all believe in sins and hell?
I'm pagan so don't see suicide as sinful, just tragic.

What happens to someone when they commit suicide is the same as what happens when someone dies any other way - although my beliefs are that we live on after death through living memory, the more people remember us or the more we achieve while we're alive the longer we live on after death. If a person commits suicide chances are that they do so because they have achieved nothing or have little impact in the world around them and so are less likely to be remembered after death - in fact I think people have a tendency to ignore people's suffering, so if anything I think that people who commit suicide are more easily forgotten.

Thus why I would not commit suicide unless I have no way of achieving anything or if my suicide would be remembered such as if I was to martyr myself over a cause. My beliefs mean I personally don't believe in suicide...but if others commit suicide then that's their business.

Last edited by Bloodheart on 15 May 2011, 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

One life, then nothing, or one life, then heaven or hell makes no sense to me. I wouldn't dream of running a universe that way.

I prefer choice. If you want to be with Jesus, you get to be with Jesus, or whomever. If you feel you deserve hell, you get hell.

If you take the time and effort to strengthen your energetic body, you can take off and go see the universe.

If you want to end, you end.

I see this as a more sophisticated take on Pascual's Wager. If I have a choice, and I might, then it makes sense for me to choose what I would like. If I have no choice, then its highly unlikely I would know or choose the correct god to worship. If there's really nothing, then I find that far less amusing than considering my options, and in that case my enjoyment of my beliefs is all that matters.

There is no Hell for people to go to when they die. Not even in Christianity. It's an idea wholly perpetuated by humans and their institutions, as a means of furthering their own goals. The idea is not consistent with Christianity as a whole, nor is it supported by scripture.

I got distracted and lost OPs question.

As a practical matter, in the context of my philosophy of choice, a calm considered suicide would give the doer the opportunity to focus all his will at the moment of death and improve the odds of the desired afterlife. A suicide in despair can't lead to anything enjoyable.

@dionysian

I've heard Xians argue both ways, with references to the Bible, but I don't find the arguments relevant to my interests. IMO, if there's a hell, its people who created it.

Yeah. Hell is unique to the human condition. I think Christians that carry around the concept of Hell don't appreciate the extent to which we are no longer human when we die...

Oh well, I suppose this is as sensible as any other religious belief.

Being dead is the same as time before you were born. I would love for there to be an afterlife after I'm dead, but that is just wishful thinking. Actually Carl Sagan said it better:
"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."

I'm not assuming anything really. I know that there are a diverse range of views in PPR. But the word hell comes from 'hel' I think. Hel being a daughter of Loki, and a place where some of the dead go. I don't know how prevalent this belief is today, but I imagine some followers of Asatru must still have a belief in 'hell'. Although of course the ideas about what happens in hell differ between Christian and Norse perspectives.

I don't know about sin in Asatru though. But I think the gods are said to take more of an interest in people who live strong lives, who are deserving of their attention. I don't think someone who commits suicide, or attempts suicide, would be seen favourably by the norse gods.
I realise there are many different strands to paganism. I used to know more about the pagan traditions, but most of what I have ever learned I have forgotten.

By your description of a good life, or a life of achievement, I have failed. When I do die, practically noone will remember me. I'm not sure I can remedy this at the moment.

It is interesting that you talk about not believing in suicide. When I attempted suicide I had no beliefs, no philosophy that I was drawing from. Just blackness and misery. An absence of any sense in the world. Apart from those who commit suicide for ideological reasons, or honour, I imagine most people who commit suicide are in a similar situation. That is, unable to relate to any moral beliefs they may have about suicide, as they are so immersed in disordered thinking or depression.

Anyway, I realise that I am waffling here. Its a difficult subject for me. I appreciate everyone's replies to this thread. I have been having a lot of dark thoughts recently, both about my past actions, and my situation today. When it comes to religion, I find it hard to be logical.