Could Trump lose in a Clement Attlee Styled landslide?

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Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 12:37 am

(1) The Confederate states that used to vote Democrat, today vote in mass Republican. So, no that's just something Republicans like to tell themselves to sleep better at night. Confederate states are still ultra conservative and vote conservatively (today Republican), Union states are still ultra liberal and vote liberally (today Democrat).

Here's an easy map showing which states were Confederate and which were Union, not surprisingly the Union states that were Republican strongholds are now Democratic strongholds. It also further explains why they hate us New York boys so much.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/civilwar/map.html

(2) FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

- Congress means this amendment particularly says the GOVERNMENT shouldn't dictate free speech - not that private institutions (or people) can't show consequences for speech.
- Trump and his minions are attacking the free press (the fourth estate) on a daily basis to the point that numerous reporters have seen an increase in death threats (I wouldn't call that being for free speech or free press).
- Republicans have also tried to pass bills that would prohibit assembling (simply googling "anti-protest bill" brings these up).

(3) Property rights? Unsure what you're implying, if you mean boycotting a store - both sides do it and right now Trump supporters are boycotting Walmart because they got triggered by an "Impeach 45" shirt.

(4) It is literally impossible to discriminate against people who are a minority given that minorities hold very few seats of power in corporations as well as in government in the states. Meanwhile, Trump's loyal fanbase is caught on VIDEO lashing out at minorities on a daily basis.

Anything else you'd like to try to add?



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Daniel89
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14 Jul 2018, 12:41 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
(1) The Confederate states that used to vote Democrat, today vote in mass Republican. So, no that's just something Republicans like to tell themselves to sleep better at night. Confederate states are still ultra conservative and vote conservatively (today Republican), Union states are still ultra liberal and vote liberally (today Democrat).

Here's an easy map showing which states were Confederate and which were Union, not surprisingly the Union states that were Republican strongholds are now Democratic strongholds. It also further explains why they hate us New York boys so much.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/civilwar/map.html

(2) FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

- Congress means this amendment particularly says the government shouldn't dictate free speech
- Trump and his minions are attacking the free press on a daily basis
- Republicans have also tried to pass bills that would prohibit protesting (simply googling "anti-protest bill" brings these up)

(3) Property rights? Unsure what you're implying, if you mean boycotting a store - both sides do it and right now Trump supporters are boycotting Walmart because they got triggered by an "Impeach 45" shirt.

(4) It is literally impossible to discriminate against people who are a minority given that minorities hold very few seats of power in corporations as well as in government. Meanwhile, Trump's loyal fanbase is caught on VIDEO lashing out at minorities on a daily basis.

Anything else you'd like to try to add?


Trump is attacking the press with his words not through legislation. The far left want to take away property rights.
What is affirmative action if not discrimination? White leftists discriminate against other whites in the name of diversity.



Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 12:44 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Spooky_Mulder wrote:
(1) The Confederate states that used to vote Democrat, today vote in mass Republican. So, no that's just something Republicans like to tell themselves to sleep better at night. Confederate states are still ultra conservative and vote conservatively (today Republican), Union states are still ultra liberal and vote liberally (today Democrat).

Here's an easy map showing which states were Confederate and which were Union, not surprisingly the Union states that were Republican strongholds are now Democratic strongholds. It also further explains why they hate us New York boys so much.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/civilwar/map.html

(2) FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

- Congress means this amendment particularly says the government shouldn't dictate free speech
- Trump and his minions are attacking the free press on a daily basis
- Republicans have also tried to pass bills that would prohibit protesting (simply googling "anti-protest bill" brings these up)

(3) Property rights? Unsure what you're implying, if you mean boycotting a store - both sides do it and right now Trump supporters are boycotting Walmart because they got triggered by an "Impeach 45" shirt.

(4) It is literally impossible to discriminate against people who are a minority given that minorities hold very few seats of power in corporations as well as in government. Meanwhile, Trump's loyal fanbase is caught on VIDEO lashing out at minorities on a daily basis.

Anything else you'd like to try to add?


Trump is attacking the press with his words not through legislation. The far left want to take away property rights.
What is affirmative action if not discrimination? White leftists discriminate against other whites in the name of diversity.


So now you're backing off of free speech, I take it.

Explain what you mean by property rights.

Affirmative action isn't discrimination or at least to the degree white people want to take it to, especially given that still most white people get in over minorities. Hell, statistics show that white people work twice as less than minorities for equal pay.

Statistics in the article, numeric study by Harvard:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... od/409276/

So, yeah - employment discrimination is very real, just not in how white people would like to see it. They like to think minorities work less for equal pay when raw data shows the exact opposite.

If you have any contrasting statistics that show minorities work less than whites for equal pay, provide it and I'll look.

Any other right wing myths you want to resort to?



Daniel89
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14 Jul 2018, 12:50 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:

So now you're backing off of free speech, I take it.

Explain what you mean by property rights.

Affirmative action isn't discrimination or at least to the degree white people want to take it to, especially given that still most white people get in over minorities. Hell, statistics show that white people work twice as less than minorities for equal pay.

Statistics in the article, numeric study by Harvard:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... od/409276/

So, yeah - employment discrimination is very real, just not in how white people would like to see it. They like to think minorities work less for equal pay when raw data shows the exact opposite.

If you have any contrasting statistics that show minorities work less than whites for equal pay, provide it and I'll look.

Any other right wing myths you want to resort to?


No I am not backing off free speech, Trump is using his free speech to attack people who are attacking him. That is not the same as taking away free speech rights.

By property rights I mean the right to own businesses.

Affirmative action is absolutely discrimination it is legally treating people unequally because of their race.

If people are being discriminated against by employers that is not the same as the government discriminating against people.



Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 12:56 am

(1) Free speech rights is LITERALLY the first amendment.

You just said legislatively and you had to narrow it to Trump.

As shown, Republicans did try to limit the assembling portion of the first amendment.

Show - legislatively (since that is what you chose to resort to after the right's attack on the fourth estate came up) - how the governmental left is going after freedom of speech.

(2) Nobody is attacking people's rights to own a business. Bring an article that shows remotely that and no - not from some far fringe right news source.

(3) I view discrimination as bad no matter who does it. But, okay government only -

Right now Confederates are hoping to ban equal marriage, blocking which restrooms trans kids can use, and aiming to bring back segregation 2.0. which this time revolves around one's sexuality.

Also government, right-wing right now are looking to make a woman choosing abortion ILLEGAL. Basically, right-wingers saying women don't have a right to do what they want with their own bodies.

Next.



Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 1:03 am

I would also like to add Trump's attacks on the free press isn't a right-wing norm. Hell, even the sane Republicans are calling Trump out for it such as former President George W. Bush:

"I consider the media to be indispensable to democracy," Bush told Matt Lauer on the TODAY show. "That we need the media to hold people like me to account. I mean, power can be very addictive and it can be corrosive and it's important for the media to call to account people who abuse their power, whether it be here or elsewhere.”

Just to play devil's advocate because I don't like painting all right-wingers as being batty like Trump is. Currently many of the sane Republicans are awake to the virus that has infected their party and are finally fighting and trying to find a way to fix it.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Daniel89
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14 Jul 2018, 1:04 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
(1) Free speech rights is LITERALLY the first amendment.

You just said legislatively and you had to narrow it to Trump.

As shown, Republicans did try to limit the assembling portion of the first amendment.

Show - legislatively (since that is what you chose to resort to after the right's attack on the fourth estate came up) - how the governmental left is going after freedom of speech.

(2) Nobody is attacking people's rights to own a business. Bring an article that shows remotely that and no - not from some far fringe right news source.

(3) I view discrimination as bad no matter who does it. But, okay government only -

Right now Confederates are hoping to ban equal marriage, blocking which restrooms trans kids can use, and aiming to bring back segregation 2.0. which this time revolves around one's sexuality.

Also government, right-wing right now are looking to make a woman choosing abortion ILLEGAL. Basically, right-wingers saying women don't have a right to do what they want with their own bodies.

Next.


You are the one who brought up Trump and accused him.

The left in America are less likely to support the first Amendment than the right.

The whole point of socialism is to take away the right to own businesses.

Government enforced discrimination is far worse than private discrimination.

It is the left that supports segregration with black only safe spaces, college days without whites etc.

Little girls should not be forced to share a bathroom with little boys.

People who are against abortion are against it because they consider the fetus to be a person it has nothing to do with gender.



Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 1:08 am

(1) And your evidence is? You just saying it? That doesn't prove anything.

(2) Democrats aren't Socialists. Today's "Democratic Socialists of America" can't even truly be called "Socialists" since they're more "Social Democrats" in the same mold as former President FDR. And again, show any proof they have called for "companies being taken away" - maybe some far, far left extremist that the left doesn't even take seriously but that's about it.

(3) Government enforced is worse and I gave literal examples.

Your first example isn't government enforced, lol.

Adolescent boys who transition - look exactly like adolescent girls and vice-verse (send a boy who has transitioned into being a girl into a boy's bathroom is literally a rape law case looking to happen).

So, with abortion right now you are literally looking to defend the government's right to discriminate against a women's right since it fits your narrative. Got it. You do know that most women see it as discrimination against them, right? Or does that not matter since it's discrimination you agree with?



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 1:11 am

Also, just so you know many Republicans would view you as "wishy-washy" for wanting to call them "the freedom party" because many of them prefer being known as "the law and order party."



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14 Jul 2018, 1:16 am

Also, just for clarification you want to send people like Kim Petras

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5817f843579fb366cecb8e9a/t/5a2a3583e2c483e527d2e26d/1512715653275/?format=2500w

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/30/a0/c3/30a0c3d85bdf2158324f5958d4f45a2e.jpg

And Katie Hill into the boy's bathroom?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2442452/Transgender-teen-Katie-Hills-painful-transition-adulthood.html

And you don't think anything could potentially go wrong when they look like they were born as women?

You trust your fellow humans a lot more than I do. Either that or overseas there's little danger of sexual molestation cases against women (or, in these regards, those who look like they were born as women) on a daily basis.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Daniel89
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14 Jul 2018, 1:20 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
(1) And your evidence is? You just saying it? That doesn't prove anything.

(2) Democrats aren't Socialists. Today's "Democratic Socialists of America" can't even truly be called "Socialists" since they're more "Social Democrats" in the same mold as former President FDR. And again, show any proof they have called for "companies being taken away" - maybe some far, far left extremist that the left doesn't even take seriously but that's about it.

(3) Government enforced is worse and I gave literal examples.

Your first example isn't government enforced, lol.

Adolescent boys who transition - look exactly like adolescent girls and vice-verse (send a boy who has transitioned into being a girl into a boy's bathroom is literally a rape law case looking to happen).

So, with abortion right now you are literally looking to defend the government's right to discriminate against a women's right since it fits your narrative. Got it. You do know that most women see it as discrimination against them, right? Or does that not matter?


I heard about a poll that democrats where less likely to support the first amendment cannot think of it off the top of my head.

The democratic socialists of America literally had signs saying abolish profits.
They also have this on their website
https://www.dsausa.org/govt_run_everything

Are you saying Affirmative action is not enforced by the government?

Boys are boys and should use the boys bathroom allowing them to use the girls infringes on the girls rights.

No I am not against abortion, I just accept the people who are against abortion are so because they consider it murder.



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14 Jul 2018, 1:27 am

(1) So, some poll that you can't think of and can't remember where you saw it. Gotcha. :wink:

(2) "Abolish profits" - yeah, they're against capitalism. I googled, with "abolish profit" do you mean - "abolish Ice/Abolish profit"? That is literally the only example that came up. In that case it isn't the same as saying abolish companies such as "abolish Walmart" - it's "abolish ICE privatized prisons." Do you know what privatized prisons and detention centers are? Do you know how new ICE is? Also, do you know that these are a relatively recent phenomenon?

(3) Affirmative Action is - but, affirmative action is not "black only safe spaces, college days without whites etc." Do you know what Affirmative Action even is? Asking since it comes off like you think Affirmative Action is "college days without whites."

(4) To use your final sentence: Many who are against sending boys who have transitioned into boys bathrooms are against rape.



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14 Jul 2018, 1:30 am

Here are statistics though:

More Democrats are for a free press. Most Republicans believe the press shouldn't have the right to criticize the government.

More Democrats are for the right to peaceful assembly. Here, more than half of right-wingers would agree although less.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/03/02/ ... mocracy_3/

Literally right-wingers were polled on the first amendment and they significantly showed that they were against it.

To recap:

FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES (criticize political leaders).

Next.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Daniel89
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14 Jul 2018, 1:33 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
(1) So, some poll that you can't think of and can't remember where you saw it. Gotcha. :wink:

(2) "Abolish profits" - yeah, they're against capitalism. I googled, with "abolish profit" do you mean - "abolish Ice/Abolish profit"? That is literally the only example that came up. In that case it isn't the same as saying abolish companies such as "abolish Walmart" - it's "abolish ICE privatized prisons." Do you know what privatized prisons and detention centers are? Do you know how new ICE is? Also, do you know that these are a relatively recent phenomenon?

(3) Affirmative Action is - but, affirmative action is not "black only safe spaces, college days without whites etc." Do you know what Affirmative Action even is? Asking since it comes off like you think Affirmative Action is "college days without whites."

(4) To use your final sentence: Many who are against sending boys who have transitioned into boys bathrooms are against rape.


They are against capitalism they literally want to take away peoples property rights it says so on that link I sent.

I didn't say black only spaces and college days without whites where affirmative action, you claimed it was the right that wanted segregation when it is the left who are segregating people.

And what is those boys raped the girls? Those boys chose to dress like girls, the girls didn't chose to have their space invaded.



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14 Jul 2018, 1:38 am

1. The link you sent doesn't even state the word "property right." Being against capitalism is not the same as wanting to take a company away from someone. As said, show where anyone literally says a company should be taken away (a company, not the isolated privatized prison/detention center debate).

2. The first case reads as though it is self rather than forced segregation (which the right is seeking to impose (forced segregation) on the lgbtq community), the second one would be wrong but also checked and it was only one college out of thousands (doesn't make it right, but it still shows the right literally has to reach into a haystack to try to find "leftist aims of segregation"). However, it is common sense that forced-segregation is worse than self-segregation especially when it is governmentally endorsed and enforced. Your examples (black safe spaces/white free days) (1) aren't governmentally based - in the states colleges are private institutions (I thought you were for company rights?), (2) affirmative action could be said to be discrimination however it doesn't fit into the definition of segregation; also, even with that, it doesn't come close to the government regulated discrimination republicans have been pushing on minorities for years.

3. Those boys didn't choose to be born in the wrong body, to which you'll likely scream fake-science. Do you honestly think they "choose" to be a way that could cost them being exiled from their families and likely killed by a bigot? On second thought - I know you'll say yes.

ADDING:

Here's the thing, I'll fold on trans bathroom by saying "don't force girls to have trans girls in their bathroom, open up a new bathroom since it can be discrimination against women - new bathroom since it is still dangerous and could invite rape." Many right-wingers will never be able to admit that making abortion illegal though is discrimination against women despite the majority of women (Democrats and Republicans alike) saying that it is.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 14 Jul 2018, 2:31 am, edited 19 times in total.

Spooky_Mulder
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14 Jul 2018, 1:41 am

Since I know it'll likely get lost, here's what right wingers think about freedom of speech or the first amendment.

Here are statistics though:

More Democrats are for a free press. Most Republicans believe the press shouldn't have the right to criticize the government.

More Democrats are for the right to peaceful assembly. More than half of right-wingers would agree although less.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/03/02/ ... mocracy_3/

Literally right-wingers were polled on the first amendment and they significantly showed that they were against it.

(In addition, since there's no statistical data on the following, my subjective account could be rare - I have seen right wingers call for Islam to be banned as a religion in the states; this would go against "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion")

To recap:

FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES (criticize political leaders).

Right-Wingers have been polled and they showed that they don't align with the First (free speech) Amendment.

Off-topic, but:

I should add though it's not surprising that right-wingers in the states wouldn't recognize what the First Amendment says (or that they were polled about it in question form) - they couldn't recognize the Declaration of Independence either.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/07/05/npr-tweeted-declaration-independence-some-people-got-angry/451112001/