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Twilightprincess
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26 Jul 2018, 12:24 pm

I’m just throwing this out there to see what other people think because I’m unsure about it myself.

Some religions (especially strict religions or cults) really restrict their members’ liberty - either through shunning, discouraging education (the Amish in my area drop out of school when they’re old enough), and not allowing birth control.

While people could go against their religions’ beliefs and do these things, they usually don’t due to believing their church is right, it’s all they know, or they lack any support outside of the church.

What types of ways could the government step in more to give people (especially born ins) more freedom? Or is more involvement a bad idea?



Last edited by Twilightprincess on 26 Jul 2018, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twilightprincess
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26 Jul 2018, 12:31 pm

I’m realizing that the topic I brought up is multifaceted and difficult to answer.

As far as education goes, maybe it should be a requirement for youth to go to high school, be in an accredited home school program, or be enrolled in GED classes.

It’s very hard for youth raised in these insular groups to get out because they have nothing to fall back on.



kraftiekortie
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26 Jul 2018, 12:42 pm

The real b***h in all this is that government cannot step in, say, if a person is being "shunned." They can only step in if something is illegal in a secular sense.

There are many things which are technically "legal" which can very easily put restrictions on those who belong to strict, insular religions/cults.

One thing which is especially galling is economic pressure. And the government, by and large, can do nothing to stop it.



Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 1:23 pm

Said cults could simply say that their freedom of religion was being violated if the government stepped in.


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Twilightprincess
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26 Jul 2018, 1:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Said cults could simply say that their freedom of religion was being violated if the government stepped in.


That’s true.

I’m wondering if there could be reasonable policies put in place that could enable more freedom without stepping on to many “zealous” toes.



Spiderpig
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26 Jul 2018, 1:45 pm

Only government restricts liberty, by definition. Everything else is liberty.


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Twilightprincess
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26 Jul 2018, 1:50 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Only government restricts liberty, by definition. Everything else is liberty.


The New Oxford American Dictionary defines liberty as “the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior, or political views.”

It wouldn’t have to be just political or governmental authority.



Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 2:16 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Only government restricts liberty, by definition. Everything else is liberty.


As if stopping a racist or homophobic majority from stomping on an unpopular minority is detrimental to to liberty.

To the OP: Sorry, I'm seriously not trying to derail this thread, but the last jab at the government "limiting freedom" needed answering, I thought.


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Twilightprincess
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26 Jul 2018, 2:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Only government restricts liberty, by definition. Everything else is liberty.


As if stopping a racist or homophobic majority from stomping on an unpopular minority is detrimental to to liberty.

To the OP: Sorry, I'm seriously not trying to derail this thread, but the last jab at the government "limiting freedom" needed answering, I thought.


I’m the queen of derailment. :wink:



Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 2:21 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Only government restricts liberty, by definition. Everything else is liberty.


As if stopping a racist or homophobic majority from stomping on an unpopular minority is detrimental to to liberty.

To the OP: Sorry, I'm seriously not trying to derail this thread, but the last jab at the government "limiting freedom" needed answering, I thought.


I’m the queen of derailment. :wink:


:lol: 8)


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kraftiekortie
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26 Jul 2018, 2:22 pm

She's like Helen of Troy; she can launch a thousand derailments :wink:



Spiderpig
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26 Jul 2018, 2:25 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
The New Oxford American Dictionary defines liberty as “the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior, or political views.”

It wouldn’t have to be just political or governmental authority.


Oh, yeah, what can you expect from a dictionary made by academia and its leftist agenda? :lol:


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Kraichgauer
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26 Jul 2018, 2:28 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Oh, yeah, what can you expect from a dictionary made by academia and its leftist agenda? :lol:


I would ask you to go into more detail in order to justify that, but as I said, I don't want to derail the thread.


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Spiderpig
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26 Jul 2018, 2:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As if stopping a racist or homophobic majority from stomping on an unpopular minority is detrimental to to liberty.


It is detrimental. People should have a right to be racist or bigoted in any other way they want. It's freedom of thought and speech.


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kraftiekortie
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26 Jul 2018, 2:32 pm

There's all sorts of political ideologies among people who compile dictionaries.