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Tequila
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16 Aug 2018, 2:19 pm

Hyeokgeose wrote:
Gold for libertarianism, both in American and Korean politics, as well as my personal political beliefs.


I'd say I was mildly libertarian. Classical liberalism suits my viewpoint best. Are you in the LP?



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16 Aug 2018, 6:32 pm

Blue, as that's the recognized color of the American center left.


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Hyeokgeose
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16 Aug 2018, 9:47 pm

Tequila wrote:
Hyeokgeose wrote:
Gold for libertarianism, both in American and Korean politics, as well as my personal political beliefs.


I'd say I was mildly libertarian. Classical liberalism suits my viewpoint best. Are you in the LP?


As far as parties go, I am actually a registered republican; I was going to register for the libertarian party when I lived in the city, but for the local demographic of the area I live in now, I decided it was best to stick with the GOP. That is until recently, when the local libertarian party chapter picked up the pace. Now I am once again considering membership and gauging where I'll go from there in regard to helping the libertarian movement.


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17 Aug 2018, 1:56 pm

Tequila wrote:
I'm more modern day. Out of all the cuisines in the world, Greek food is among my favourite. I wouldn't talk to me about food, I just like eating. :-)

Yes, I like a blend of modern, classical and ancient. Good to learn from history to help build the future.

I like food as well, like, quite a lot. If you saw me then you'd know. :D



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 6:23 am

Red, always.


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 6:32 am

Sianann wrote:
Red, always.


The red blaze of freedom?

I don't agree with the song - I think Ireland seceding was a mistake - but am OK with the present situation.



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 9:48 am

Tequila wrote:
Sianann wrote:
Red, always.


The red blaze of freedom?

I don't agree with the song - I think Ireland seceding was a mistake - but am OK with the present situation.


Of all the reds in all the world...but no, I was thinking more generally like socialist...or even communist (but I think I’m too cynical for that...but I can dream...) red or the red of passion or my own aura (so I’ve been told).


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 9:58 am

Sianann wrote:
Of all the reds in all the world...but no, I was thinking more generally like socialist...or even communist (but I think I’m too cynical for that...but I can dream...)


Ah - what is it about socialism that attracts you? This intrigues me - freedom of choice fascinates me. The ability to go and get what I want, to create, to mix and match, to thrive, to do the best I can for family and friends. Even looking at the vast number of products on sale at a supermarket, or travelling the world, trying new things. Freedom (although I prefer liberty - freedom in its truest sense means death) is exciting to me. It's intoxicating and exhilarating.



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 12:31 pm

Tequila wrote:
Sianann wrote:
Of all the reds in all the world...but no, I was thinking more generally like socialist...or even communist (but I think I’m too cynical for that...but I can dream...)


Ah - what is it about socialism that attracts you? This intrigues me - freedom of choice fascinates me. The ability to go and get what I want, to create, to mix and match, to thrive, to do the best I can for family and friends. Even looking at the vast number of products on sale at a supermarket, or travelling the world, trying new things. Freedom (although I prefer liberty - freedom in its truest sense means death) is exciting to me. It's intoxicating and exhilarating.


Let’s just say that I’m a minimalist at heart. I do think travel broadens the mind but that, to me, isn’t incompatible with socialism and neither is doing the best for family and friends or oneself for that matter. Freedom is not death (I like a robust debate! Haha!) but is the capacity for acceptance of the s**t hitting the fan against your wishes and controlling what is within one’s power to control without compromising integrity, etc. Yes, I’m an Epictetus fan.

I would like to see a more level life-field if possible...that means no private property and intelligent solutions to society’s problems - we’ve a housing and therefore a homeless crisis here in Ireland but what’s being done? Nothing of substance because...?

Having said that, I am curious about your intoxicating version of freedom! Maybe I’ve been reading too many Germanic philosophers of late...they tend to advise dwelling on death (a lot) in order to encounter the mystery and essence of life...so that we can be truly free of all those distractions like things in supermarkets, short-term gain experiences, doing what you want because you can...


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 12:44 pm

Sianann wrote:
I do think travel broadens the mind but that, to me, isn’t incompatible with socialism


As I understand it, socialism means harmonising things. Getting rid of diversity. That's one of the reasons why I would have been against the USSR and why I was so against the EU (I was there for that and tried to make the case for Leave as best I could).

Sianann wrote:
and neither is doing the best for family and friends or oneself for that matter.


This is what I can't quite understand - you seem very idealistic, and in many ways that's such a good thing.

Sianann wrote:
Freedom is not death (I like a robust debate! Haha!)


As a libertarian, freedom is dangerous. Freedom means the God-given right to do whatever you want to anyone regardless of any consequences. It's stuff I don't want - freedom legitimises rape, murder, theft, assault, money laundering, corruption and so on.

Sianann wrote:
but is the capacity for acceptance of the s**t hitting the fan against your wishes


It's also about taking responsibility for what you are responsible for.

Sianann wrote:
that means no private property


You want to take my things. Why? What gives you the right to take my computer to give to someone "less deserving"? It's mine; I bought and paid for that. Not this one; but my one.

Sianann wrote:
we’ve a housing and therefore a homeless crisis here in Ireland but what’s being done? Nothing of substance because...?


I'm not read up enough on Irish domestic politics to work out the solution. Offering a solution would be interfering in Ireland's politics. That said, I am a fan of private ownership. Social housing is a positive thing for those that need it but ideally, private ownership is the in thing. When you own your own place, you're more likely to take care of it and keep it in good order.

Sianann wrote:
Having said that, I am curious about your intoxicating version of freedom!


Liberty. It's a radical concept. Don't get me wrong, I believe in a welfare state and all of that. I believe in taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. But for everyone else, they should be left to work out their own way in life. The Government should be small and in touch with its people at all levels.

I don't agree with Noam Chomsky on well, nearly anything, but he has a point here:

Noam Chomsky wrote:
It is true that classical libertarian thought is opposed to state intervention in social life, as a consequence of deeper assumptions about the human need for liberty, diversity, and free association.


I am slightly to the left of most of the ardent right-libertarians in that I'm more sensible.



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 1:54 pm

Tequila wrote:
Sianann wrote:
I do think travel broadens the mind but that, to me, isn’t incompatible with socialism


As I understand it, socialism means harmonising things. Getting rid of diversity. That's one of the reasons why I would have been against the USSR and why I was so against the EU (I was there for that and tried to make the case for Leave as best I could).

Sianann wrote:
and neither is doing the best for family and friends or oneself for that matter.


This is what I can't quite understand - you seem very idealistic, and in many ways that's such a good thing.

Sianann wrote:
Freedom is not death (I like a robust debate! Haha!)


As a libertarian, freedom is dangerous. Freedom means the God-given right to do whatever you want to anyone regardless of any consequences. It's stuff I don't want - freedom legitimises rape, murder, theft, assault, money laundering, corruption and so on.

Sianann wrote:
but is the capacity for acceptance of the s**t hitting the fan against your wishes


It's also about taking responsibility for what you are responsible for.

Sianann wrote:
that means no private property


You want to take my things. Why? What gives you the right to take my computer to give to someone "less deserving"? It's mine; I bought and paid for that. Not this one; but my one.

Sianann wrote:
we’ve a housing and therefore a homeless crisis here in Ireland but what’s being done? Nothing of substance because...?


I'm not read up enough on Irish domestic politics to work out the solution. Offering a solution would be interfering in Ireland's politics. That said, I am a fan of private ownership. Social housing is a positive thing for those that need it but ideally, private ownership is the in thing. When you own your own place, you're more likely to take care of it and keep it in good order.

Sianann wrote:
Having said that, I am curious about your intoxicating version of freedom!


Liberty. It's a radical concept. Don't get me wrong, I believe in a welfare state and all of that. I believe in taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. But for everyone else, they should be left to work out their own way in life. The Government should be small and in touch with its people at all levels.

I don't agree with Noam Chomsky on well, nearly anything, but he has a point here:

Noam Chomsky wrote:
It is true that classical libertarian thought is opposed to state intervention in social life, as a consequence of deeper assumptions about the human need for liberty, diversity, and free association.


I am slightly to the left of most of the ardent right-libertarians in that I'm more sensible.


Perhaps I am idealistic but part of being innovative is to have diversity in thinking...to follow those tangents now and again.

While I understand your interpretation of socialism as anti-diversity; it is not mine. Sure, there is the ‘no-one owns private property’ in my world but to say that it’s completely anti-diverse is incorrect. As for the Leave EU...what? For a mini-monarchal version of Europe, of the planet, of the universe? All this accomplishes is the building of metaphorical walls against...diversity, perhaps?; negating the opportunities for British people to move and live and work with freedom within a larger landmass...

I don’t want to take your property. I want you to think about what’s best for society - not just those you favour personally for whatever reason and bequest(!) your property to the people! (Okay, I’m laughing as I write this because I can imagine you’re now thinking I’m deluded...and you may be correct...for now.) Imagine those with vast properties...what is the very low percentage of landowners that own most of the property in the UK? I can’t remember...but imagine if that property was made available for sustainable, self-sufficient co-operative living (and hermetic living too!)? Don’t you think that people would look after their homes and land? Unfortunately a lot of wealthy landlords who own various properties for rental do not look after their properties and would rather a property fell into dereliction than accept lower rental incomes...

As to freedom: I did not say that it meant the capacity to do everything one pleases...that is your realm and just because you don’t do things that are heinous, doesn’t mean that you don’t share the belief that freedom is doing what you want...you do - like buying things and owning property...but yours is the acceptable face of a certain interpretation of freedom.

Freedom, as I interpreted/stated it, is accepting there are things that you can’t do (because the law forbids it, for example) or own (because you can’t afford it, etc.) and controlling the things that are within your control without compromising your integrity.

As to giving things to people ‘less deserving’...who could you possibly be referring to?

Thank you for this debate. I have thoroughly enjoyed it!


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 1:59 pm

Sianann wrote:
Thank you for this debate. I have thoroughly enjoyed it!


Does this mean the subject is closed or may I continue?



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 2:32 pm

Tequila wrote:
Sianann wrote:
Thank you for this debate. I have thoroughly enjoyed it!


Does this mean the subject is closed or may I continue?


Oh! Please continue...


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 2:34 pm

Are you media?



Sianann
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18 Aug 2018, 2:38 pm

Tequila wrote:
Are you media?


I’m an artist.


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Tequila
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18 Aug 2018, 2:42 pm

Sianann wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Are you media?


I’m an artist.


Alright. I'll get back to it then.