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JohnPowell
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04 Sep 2018, 11:35 am

I don't agree with him on everything but he is one of those people I could listen to all day. He's very left wing but true to himself.

That is why he rejects the Democrat party. Clintons get slammed here, Trump and Obama. "Trump is the symptom, not the disease". People on the left who can still be rational should listen to this talk. It helps understand what created Trump. And it's a sick insult to just say "Russia did it". There were people in the heart of America that had been stabbed in the back by Clinton and Obama and who voted for Sanders and then ended up voting for Trump. Because they want anything but what had betrayed them in the past.

Please let me know what you think if you get a chance to watch.


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04 Sep 2018, 12:11 pm

True, but that doesn't mean Trump voters weren't horribly misguided. It's also why real. progressives are doing better now.



JohnPowell
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07 Sep 2018, 11:30 am

Hillary voters were far more misguided. People voted for Trump in general because they wanted a change from the status quo, which Clinton embodies. They are frauds, they all were crowing about McCain. What the hell happened to the old left?


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07 Sep 2018, 11:44 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary voters were far more misguided. People voted for Trump in general because they wanted a change from the status quo, which Clinton embodies. They are frauds, they all were crowing about McCain. What the hell happened to the old left?
Limousine Liberals, every one.

They became wealthy and disconnected from their constituencies, while simultaneous espousing a Socialist economy as long as it did not affect their own wealth.

In other words, the Left turned condescendingly hypocritical, thus providing a stark counterpoint to the Right's tyrannical oligarchy.


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JohnPowell
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07 Sep 2018, 11:55 am

True.


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VIDEODROME
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16 Sep 2018, 7:58 am

It felt like a choice between two crime families.

I voted for Bernie in the Primary. Then I tossed my General Vote to Jill Stein mostly as a vote for The Green Party. I understood the anger, but I couldn't vote for Trump.



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16 Sep 2018, 3:59 pm

I would have voted for Jill Stein too.


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AspieUtah
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16 Sep 2018, 4:16 pm

Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"


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JohnPowell
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16 Sep 2018, 5:28 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"


What does 'moderate' mean? I think it is more likely a 'left wing extremist' will take the lead for the Dems.


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16 Sep 2018, 10:01 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary voters were far more misguided. People voted for Trump in general because they wanted a change from the status quo, which Clinton embodies. They are frauds, they all were crowing about McCain. What the hell happened to the old left?
I think Trump embodied the status quo to a greater degree, but he hid it under a veil of fabrications like his "drain the swamp" philosophy in which the irony was lost on his voters that he was essentially the "swamp" himself, as were his cronies following the inauguration.

As for the left, there never will be one in America. The US is not a liberal nation, besides maybe San Francisco or Seattle along with a handful of other small pockets (likely in the northern side of the US near the US - Canada border). Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance not because he's a bad candidate but because Americans are terrified of change and socialism. I like Bernie because I think he would bring genuine change to the states, and his supporters are more real in my opinion. That doesn't mean he would ever win the election, which is a shame.

I suppose the take away point is that Americans are a slave to the constitution. I posted this on another forum not long ago and they didn't get it. I think people on here likely will, whether they agree or disagree is a different matter.



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16 Sep 2018, 10:04 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
It felt like a choice between two crime families.

I voted for Bernie in the Primary. Then I tossed my General Vote to Jill Stein mostly as a vote for The Green Party. I understood the anger, but I couldn't vote for Trump.
The Green Party would be my choice in the UK but I can't even vote for them in my region. They wouldn't win, anyway. A sad truth. An inconvenient truth, as Al Gore might say.



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17 Sep 2018, 12:46 am

Mythos wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Hillary voters were far more misguided. People voted for Trump in general because they wanted a change from the status quo, which Clinton embodies. They are frauds, they all were crowing about McCain. What the hell happened to the old left?
I think Trump embodied the status quo to a greater degree, but he hid it under a veil of fabrications like his "drain the swamp" philosophy in which the irony was lost on his voters that he was essentially the "swamp" himself, as were his cronies following the inauguration.

As for the left, there never will be one in America. The US is not a liberal nation, besides maybe San Francisco or Seattle along with a handful of other small pockets (likely in the northern side of the US near the US - Canada border). Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance not because he's a bad candidate but because Americans are terrified of change and socialism. I like Bernie because I think he would bring genuine change to the states, and his supporters are more real in my opinion. That doesn't mean he would ever win the election, which is a shame.

I suppose the take away point is that Americans are a slave to the constitution. I posted this on another forum not long ago and they didn't get it. I think people on here likely will, whether they agree or disagree is a different matter.


I don't get it... :lol:


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17 Sep 2018, 8:41 am

JohnPowell wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"

What does 'moderate' mean? I think it is more likely a 'left wing extremist' will take the lead for the Dems.

The Democratic Party lost about a third of its registered voters nationally before, during and after the Obama election of 2008. They simply, quietly, deregistered from the party. I suspect that it was all its moderate members seeking refuge in the (libertarian) Tea Party or elsewhere. The same has happened with the Trump election and a lot of its vanishing members. Because both parties are currently driven by extremists, offering moderate candidates would bring back those moderate voters of both parties who disappeared over the years.


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17 Sep 2018, 2:20 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"

What does 'moderate' mean? I think it is more likely a 'left wing extremist' will take the lead for the Dems.

The Democratic Party lost about a third of its registered voters nationally before, during and after the Obama election of 2008. They simply, quietly, deregistered from the party. I suspect that it was all its moderate members seeking refuge in the (libertarian) Tea Party or elsewhere. The same has happened with the Trump election and a lot of its vanishing members. Because both parties are currently driven by extremists, offering moderate candidates would bring back those moderate voters of both parties who disappeared over the years.


The Tea Party is moderate? :-?


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AspieUtah
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17 Sep 2018, 2:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"

What does 'moderate' mean? I think it is more likely a 'left wing extremist' will take the lead for the Dems.

The Democratic Party lost about a third of its registered voters nationally before, during and after the Obama election of 2008. They simply, quietly, deregistered from the party. I suspect that it was all its moderate members seeking refuge in the (libertarian) Tea Party or elsewhere. The same has happened with the Trump election and a lot of its vanishing members. Because both parties are currently driven by extremists, offering moderate candidates would bring back those moderate voters of both parties who disappeared over the years.

The Tea Party is moderate? :-?

The original five founders of the Tea Party were moderate Libertarians based in Massachusetts who held annual tea dumps in Boston Harbor to remind themselves and their federal government that they and it should embrace liberty as the Founders did. The eventual other Tea Parties were ever increasingly Republican until the RNC finally bought the franchise immediately before Sarah Palin was chosen to serve as the Republican candidate and nominee for vice president. By buying the franchise, the RNC rewarded old school Republicans who, as leaders of the various different Tea Parties, turned out to her campaign stops as probably the largest contingent of the Republican presidential campaign of 2008.


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17 Sep 2018, 3:14 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Once again, watch for a moderate from either major political party to surge in 2020. I expect to see former cabinet members and governors having the best chance at winning. Extremists of all stripes will lose spectacularly. It will be "A plague o' both your houses!"

What does 'moderate' mean? I think it is more likely a 'left wing extremist' will take the lead for the Dems.

The Democratic Party lost about a third of its registered voters nationally before, during and after the Obama election of 2008. They simply, quietly, deregistered from the party. I suspect that it was all its moderate members seeking refuge in the (libertarian) Tea Party or elsewhere. The same has happened with the Trump election and a lot of its vanishing members. Because both parties are currently driven by extremists, offering moderate candidates would bring back those moderate voters of both parties who disappeared over the years.

The Tea Party is moderate? :-?

The original five founders of the Tea Party were moderate Libertarians based in Massachusetts who held annual tea dumps in Boston Harbor to remind themselves and their federal government that they and it should embrace liberty as the Founders did. The eventual other Tea Parties were ever increasingly Republican until the RNC finally bought the franchise immediately before Sarah Palin was chosen to serve as the Republican candidate and nominee for vice president. By buying the franchise, the RNC rewarded old school Republicans who, as leaders of the various different Tea Parties, turned out to her campaign stops as probably the largest contingent of the Republican presidential campaign of 2008.


Despite any moderate origins for the Tea Party, it morphed into the Randian/Republican astroturf monstrosity most of us know and loathe today.


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