My interest in this world is that which is not of this world

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EzraS
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13 Oct 2018, 12:40 pm

I've had some interesting experiences. One time in the woods I saw or had a vision of a woman with 2 small children.
I found out later that there's a hidden cemetery in that area and many people over the years reported seeing what I saw.

There's a pyramid shaped tomb in a nearby cemetery that's a tourist attraction.
One day while on a long walk we came up to a large house at the top of a hill.
I somehow knew that was once the house of the people in that tomb, and later found out it was.



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13 Oct 2018, 3:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
By agreement, the astrologer needed to get ten of the 12 correct, to win. He got none correct.

Geeze. You would think, even without any psychic powers, you would be able to figure out at least a few people, based on their personality alone. Maybe he wasn't given enough time to really feel them out.

Fnord wrote:
So my question to the OP is "Why would anyone claim to be a psychic (mystic, sensitive, et cetera) when their results are no better than random guessing?"

I've had premonitions plenty of times in my life, but there's no way I can use any of that information to my benefit. The dreams never tell me when the even is going to happen, or where it's going to happen...and it's usually either something that bares no significance on my life, or it's something that occurs in a different country.


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14 Oct 2018, 2:41 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Fnord wrote:
By agreement, the astrologer needed to get ten of the 12 correct, to win. He got none correct.

Geeze. You would think, even without any psychic powers, you would be able to figure out at least a few people, based on their personality alone. Maybe he wasn't given enough time to really feel them out.

Fnord wrote:
So my question to the OP is "Why would anyone claim to be a psychic (mystic, sensitive, et cetera) when their results are no better than random guessing?"

I've had premonitions plenty of times in my life, but there's no way I can use any of that information to my benefit. The dreams never tell me when the even is going to happen, or where it's going to happen...and it's usually either something that bares no significance on my life, or it's something that occurs in a different country.
Premonitions are simply the law of averages at work; if you have a thousand dreams, what are the chances that not one of them at least vaguely occurs? If you have a thousand ideas, how likely that none come true?

When you think about it in numbers, it's really not all that mystical in the end.



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14 Oct 2018, 3:17 pm

Mythos wrote:
Premonitions are simply the law of averages at work; if you have a thousand dreams, what are the chances that not one of them at least vaguely occurs?

Premonitions always feel different to me than regular dreams, and the details seem far too specific to be mere coincidence. They also tend to come true within a few weeks of having them.


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Sahn
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14 Oct 2018, 3:27 pm

The more superstitions that I observe, the more intuitive I feel. The stronger my faith becomes, the more magic I observe.

The Less superstition I observe, the less intuitive I feel etc.



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14 Oct 2018, 3:28 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Mythos wrote:
Premonitions are simply the law of averages at work; if you have a thousand dreams, what are the chances that not one of them at least vaguely occurs?

Premonitions always feel different to me than regular dreams, and the details seem far too specific to be mere coincidence. They also tend to come true within a few weeks of having them.
Feel different how? Come true how?



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15 Oct 2018, 5:23 am

Mythos wrote:
Feel different how? Come true how?

"Come true" as in the events from my premonition unfold in Real Life, or I find out about the event from the news.

I don't know how to explain how they feel different, they just don't feel like a regular dream, or a lucid dream, or anything like that. They feel like their own category.


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Oct 2018, 6:25 am

domineekee wrote:
The more superstitions that I observe, the more intuitive I feel. The stronger my faith becomes, the more magic I observe.

The Less superstition I observe, the less intuitive I feel etc.

The thing that's been interesting in the past is watching things mesh strong enough to break the dials of probability, repeatedly, in short swaths of time. I had that sort of series five years ago, the thing I've learned is it's not something a person knowingly tricks themselves into or at least if you try as such deliberately your own internal compass will call BS. I had certain types of subconscious ideological blockages that broke at the time and a lot of it likely came as a result of that.


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18 Oct 2018, 11:37 am

Fnord wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
It's hard to fill a cup that is already full. You're clearly very scientific-minded, which is wonderful and which I appreciate, as I love science, but I would articulate my so-called knowledge in mystical matters in a manner that would not suffice.
Bether3 wrote:
I am going to highly recommend that you read one of my favorite books, "Mind into Matter: A New Alchemy of Science and Spirit" by physicist Fred Alan Wolf, as he speaks your language. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-into-Matter ... 0966132769
Excuses and a book pitch? C'mon! If you know what you're talking about, and if you can articulate it in simple terms, then I can learn it.

For example, did you see how easy it is to explain the Inverse-Square Law?

I'll try to get a copy of the book, but if it reads like every other New Age text, then it'll be a waste of money. Flowery prose went out of favor in the scientific community sometime during the Industrial Revolution, and was replaced with plain-language descriptions and easy-to-follow mathematical principles. Heck, even Einstein's Matter-Energy Equivalency formula uses only three terms, and its meaning is understandable by a fifth-grader!


Last night I began reading "An End to Upside Down Thinking: Dispelling the Myth That the Brain Produces Consciousness, and the Implications for Everyday Life", by Mark Gober, who graduated magna cum laude from Princeton and whom used to be a materialist. I was reminded of this thread.

Read the Preface: https://www.amazon.com/End-Upside-Down- ... 1947637851

That in itself explains why materialist thinking is backwards.

In my own words, matter cannot be known without consciousness experiencing it. "If a tree falls in the forest with no ears to hear, does it make a sound?". Consciousness is the basis of creation, thus reality, and the foundation of mystical experience. Trying to put mysticism into words, explain it in linear terms is like trying to convert matter in a gaseous state into a solid state.

"The materialist perspective is not grounded in experience. It requires an abstract line of reasoning that presupposes the existence of a reality outside consciousness, although nobody has ever experienced this, nor could they ever experience it. The materialist point of view asserts the reality of that which is never experienced -matter (outside consciousness)- and denies that which alone is always experienced- consciousness itself. That is the tragedy and the absurdity of the materialist perspective from which humanity is suffering." -Rupert Spira

I rest my case.


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quite an extreme
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18 Oct 2018, 1:01 pm

Bether3 wrote:
"That is the tragedy and the absurdity of the materialist perspective from which humanity is suffering." -Rupert Spira


He is wrong here. Humanity is only suffering on a lack of humanity and mostly overwhelming idioty.

"Er nennts Vernunft und braucht's allein, Nur tierischer als jedes Tier zu sein." (Goethe, Faust I)
( "He calls it reason and uses it alone, only to be more animal than any animal." :mrgreen: )


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18 Oct 2018, 1:33 pm

I'm normally sympathetic to spiritualism/dualism, but to retreat into the ridiculous combination of idealism and mysticism above is just plain wrong. There's no reason why we shouldn't some day be able to completely explain consciousness in materialistic terms, we already can in a very crude capacity.



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18 Oct 2018, 1:38 pm

The point I'm trying to make us that spiritualism and materialism (in the philosophical sense) are not adversarial positions - one doesn't exclude the other. Indeed this is the position in pretty much all of the major esoteric and philosophical traditions of the world. Matter is something qualitatively different from spirit, but that doesn't mean that the existence of spirit precludes the existence of matter.



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18 Oct 2018, 4:07 pm

Bether3 wrote:
I rest my case.

Good luck, Fnord will not be swayed =)


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aghogday
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18 Oct 2018, 4:56 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg

In Terms of Mind; and In Terms of Very Old Terms Like Yin and Yang; one Used to the Deficit of the other Creates an Imbalance and it's true, a Rocket Scientist May not be able to figure that out in Metaphors for that very Art 'Reason'
of Yin as Social Empathic Artistic Intelligence Versus Yang as Mechanical Cognition Reasoning Intelligence.

Mechanical Cognition Based Reason Using the Current Scientific Method Cannot Reliably Measure the 'Details' of the Social Empathic Artistic Part of the Human Mind/Body; and the Social Empathic Artistic Mind May not Pay Attention to the 'Details' of Science at all; Of course, with Social Empathic Artistic Ways of Mind, the Much Bigger Holistic Photo of
Our Existential Intelligences are missed under the Micro-Scope of Detail Thinking, using a Scientific Method that
Relies on Measurable Evidence that is more Crystalized than Fluid; A way that the Social Empathic Artistic
Mind Sees and Uses the Perceptual Environment Within, inside, outside, above, so below, and All around too
in Holistic Bigger Picture View.

And this isn't just Philosophy or my Point of View as Science Shows where Mechanical Cognition Intelligence is used
in Lieu of Social Empathic Intelligence as this represses the Very Existence of Social Empathic intelligence; where what is
not used wilts away; and the Converse of this Comes True as well in the actual Practice of Exercising the other Intelligence too; as that's Just overall Existential Intelligence Common Sense and Feel that Use IT or Lose IT applies to all stuff Life.

The so-called Mystical Areas of Life; that Mechanical Cognition in Reasoning is No Tool to Measure THAT Experience
of Life, ranging from Emotions to Human Imagination and Creativity too, Do most definitely exist whether they
are an immediate part or not of Mechanical Cognition Reasoning Mind; and of course the Same applies for
one who operates in the Flow of an ''Autotelic" State of Being where the Neo-Cortex and all this Mechanical
Cognition in Reasoning Mind is Dampened where Creative Works of Human Potentials come more into
Play in a "Transient Hypo-Frontality" way of Expanding Human Creativity over Problem Solving Mind.

The Material is what we can Measure with the Mechanical Cognition Reasoning Mind and ITs "Science Tools".
The Mystical is what we can Measure with the Social Empathic Artistic Mind and ITs "Art Tools" to Accomplish that too.

Some folks can and will get rather Stuck in a Yin or Yang State of Mind/Body Being to the Exclusion of the other overall
Human Intelligence Potentials; and that Causes Problems of Understanding and Frustration and Even Aggression when
one is separated so far from the Rest of their Human Potential Intelligences; a common Origin of Existential Angst, too.

Once one has arrived in a Balance of Both as the Author of the Op Seems to Socially Communicate in Reciprocal Ways
too; IT's pretty easy to see who is behind an Opaque Window of Potential Human Intelligences and who is not; Clear
As Day and Night never Meeting the 'tween of each other; one can and will Observe as a Scientist and an Artist too.

IT's Common Sense and Feel that Science will not Likely ever Be able to Successfully AND RELIABLY Measure the
Mystical in Life; from All Parts of that Human Potential Intelligence, Ranging from the Social to the Empathic and
to the Art that Better expresses the Mystical areas of life that can and will be Vaguely understood by some;
Not understood by others; And Well, And Increasingly Better Understood by still others, depending on
Experience and Novel Education in a Practice of Life that Branches out of Mechanical Cognition
Reasoning Mind; And Embraces the Social Empathic Artistic Way of Human Cognition and Reality Now More in
Beefing up Human Potential as Use IT instead of Lose IT actually does Work for Both Yin and Yang Mind and Body
in Balance or not now. In the view of Folks (Scientists) like Simon Baron-Cohen, IT may very well be the Hardest of
all for some folks on the Autism Spectrum to come to View and Use more of a Social-Empathic-Artistic way of
Human Potential Intelligences, including the Experience of the Mystical that Science is just not fully Equipped
to either Study or Provide Reliable Results for now. Anyway; for anyone truly in the Know; yes, Feel and Sense
of the Mystical of Yin Life with a Balancing Act of using the Yang of Mechanical Cognition Reasoning Mind too;
IT's not to Hard to see where an
Excess out of Balance in
Yin or Yang is a Major Source
of Human Discontentment from Toe to Head..:)

In Other Words, some folks are lost from a Very Different Continent of Human Potential Intelligences;
As that Relates to Both Innate and Environmental Factors From First to Last Blink of Life as in my case for sure,
depending on the Environmental Influences at Hand; and either Positive or Negative Struggles and Accommodations
in Positive or Negative Epigenetic and Neuroplastic Change, I've Been "The Architect and or the Oracle" and while
Doing the Oracle is Much more Exciting and Fun in "Matrix and Neo" Terms of Enjoying Life; I Still do keep "the
Architect" in My Back Pocket to Keep me Grounded; although to me at least, It doesn't seem fully Human and
More like a Computer Robot Program of Systemizing Science as that is pretty dam Close to the Way Simon
Cohen-Baron Describes IT with his AQ Test too. I see IT as mostly Environmentally Influenced as
other wise IT's not likely that i could have moved from 45, as I believe that was once what
Fnord Reported for His Score, if I am not Mistaken, as pretty close to the highest
Reported Score like me then that I've Seen on this Internet Site out of 50 as yes,
Empirically so through Environmental Challenge In Positive Epigenetic and
Neuroplastic Wiring Changes and likely Greater Expression in Potentials
of the Genetic Material Associated with my DNA,
I moved from 45 to an 11 on the AQ
Test and moved from INTJ to ENFP
as a Personality Measure in the
Course of one Summer in 2013 as throughout other
Spans of my Life, I scored anywhere from 28 to 36 on
the AQ Test, Before I was a shut-in, From the Rest of the Human Species then.
Additionally, I moved from the Mid 50's on an EQ Test for Emotional Intelligence to the Mid 90's then too.

Anyway, the 11 Definitely brought me very Closer to Oracle Stage of Human Potential; as i continue to expand on
that potential now; and if you don't believe that; that's fine, for I do 'totally' understand what IT's like not to be able
to see through that Opaque Window of More Mystical and Enlightened Human Intelligences; that now for all Practical
Intents and Purposes Produces all Natural Miracles of Life; if you wanna be bored if I list them off like a Check-list
Again in
Proof of
Heaven Now
where all i do is
win in terms of what it means
to be more fully Human now; as this
Believe Is An Essence of Faith as Love Incarnate as Real.

One Interesting Point of Fact as IT relates to Seeing the World or better put
not seeing the World Very Differently, Science Assesses up to 50 Percent of Folks
on the Higher End of the Autism Spectrum with a Version of Non-Verbal Learning
Disorder which in many Cases include no ability to Visually think and in some cases
that is actually associated with Actual Lesions on the Right Hemisphere of the Brain.
Of course, by very Definition, this limits Human Imagination and Creativity that
comes from Visually Imaging with 'the MInd's eye' as not all folks have
that Functionality of Being Human for a combination of Innate
and Environmental Factors; And further along with
Mystical out of the Box Realities that Science
is able to Measure now; if a Human Being
Visualizes through that Mind's eye
that they will get Stronger
they will actually get
Physically Stronger
without even Working out
versus those who Do Work-Out
in Empirical Studies for that; Sports
Psychology in Play too. So, how does it work;
Science cannot explain the actual Sub-Conscious Process
at Work; and what is also true is some folks have been able
to Visually Imagine the Physical Repairs of Injuries and Accelerate
the Healing Process as well. True; if one is missing this Ability now for
Literal Imagination in Visualizing Real Miracles that come true that is quite
A Deficit in what other wise might be possible; and the saddest Part is; is those
who do possess this potential and do not use it in Visualization and Imagination of Believing in
Seeing Actual Visualizations with the Mind's Eye And Bringing Strength Gains and Healing into Fruition now.

IT wasn't too Long ago that 'Science; Called that Woo; as Science continues to have to eat and spit out the results
Differently; Same with the so-called previous Woo of Intelligent Design And now the Agreed upon Likelihood
of An Intelligent Design As A Holographic Simulation of Reality as is Created by a much more Intelligent Being
than us as reported by Super Rock Star Astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson; yes, can you spell God that way too;
IT's all Semantics as Supreme Being over us Creating our Reality as an Intelligent Design means precisely that now
in even
General
Biblical
old Terms as such;
and 'who' knows; perhaps
IT took that Supreme Being
7 days of ITs time measured to do IT.
Wouldn't that be Hilarious; and Just something else for Science to Spit out and eat again.
And wouldn't IT be Ironic if that God's Name was/is Horatio for those who don't believe in 'that God' still as IT.

And even more interesting IT would be IF That Creator is Always a Player in ITs Video Game too. The
Possibilities as the Goddess of Victory Nike says are just endless for those with Imagination who
Better Reflect
this Creative
Potential
Seemingly
Programmed into the so-called 'Chosen Ones' too.

Anyway, if Agape Love is the Real Power-up, which i am 100 Percent sure IT IS to get to Heaven Now;
as the Ultimate Reward of the Video Game of this Age at least now as a Cheat-Code i am Providing now;
As Oh God too; Many others have too; I suggest you Seek and Find this Agape Love; and Practice IT to the Best of
Your Ability;
And then Perhaps
You Will Eternally
Win this Video Game for Now;
as hey; IT couldn't Hurt to Try IT in a Simulation of Life at least.

In Other Words, Move Out of the Box; And Do Much Greater Potential; Bottom Line Here at Least, too.

And as a side note; wouldn't IT be interesting, if "the Creator's Identity" is 'AnonYMous'; And Just for Fun 'IT' put IT inTo
all the Players of ITs 'Video Game' to Find IT as Them. One thing for sure is, Life is Bigger Than a Text Book and/or Bible.

So; A Question may Be Posed as; Are You Ready for IT;
Stephen King and Taylor Swift have already asked This Question;
which of CourSE iS oNly Rhetorical for me at least; hehe; or WTF IT As Just A Blank Space to Be "FeeLeD" iN AGaiN As IT.


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Bether3
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18 Oct 2018, 5:32 pm

Bether3 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
It's hard to fill a cup that is already full. You're clearly very scientific-minded, which is wonderful and which I appreciate, as I love science, but I would articulate my so-called knowledge in mystical matters in a manner that would not suffice.
Bether3 wrote:
I am going to highly recommend that you read one of my favorite books, "Mind into Matter: A New Alchemy of Science and Spirit" by physicist Fred Alan Wolf, as he speaks your language. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-into-Matter ... 0966132769
Excuses and a book pitch? C'mon! If you know what you're talking about, and if you can articulate it in simple terms, then I can learn it.

For example, did you see how easy it is to explain the Inverse-Square Law?

I'll try to get a copy of the book, but if it reads like every other New Age text, then it'll be a waste of money. Flowery prose went out of favor in the scientific community sometime during the Industrial Revolution, and was replaced with plain-language descriptions and easy-to-follow mathematical principles. Heck, even Einstein's Matter-Energy Equivalency formula uses only three terms, and its meaning is understandable by a fifth-grader!


Last night I began reading "An End to Upside Down Thinking: Dispelling the Myth That the Brain Produces Consciousness, and the Implications for Everyday Life", by Mark Gober, who graduated magna cum laude from Princeton and whom used to be a materialist. I was reminded of this thread.

Read the Preface: https://www.amazon.com/End-Upside-Down- ... 1947637851

That in itself explains why materialist thinking is backwards.

In my own words, matter cannot be known without consciousness experiencing it. "If a tree falls in the forest with no ears to hear, does it make a sound?". Consciousness is the basis of creation, it is pure potentiality in which the perceived "reality" in which we live in is born of, and the foundation of mystical experience. Trying to put mysticism into words, explain it in linear terms is like trying to convert matter in a gaseous state into a solid state.

"The materialist perspective is not grounded in experience. It requires an abstract line of reasoning that presupposes the existence of a reality outside consciousness, although nobody has ever experienced this, nor could they ever experience it. The materialist point of view asserts the reality of that which is never experienced -matter (outside consciousness)- and denies that which alone is always experienced- consciousness itself. That is the tragedy and the absurdity of the materialist perspective from which humanity is suffering." -Rupert Spira

I rest my case.


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Bether3
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18 Oct 2018, 5:33 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
I rest my case.

Good luck, Fnord will not be swayed =)


"The truth is like a lion. You don’t have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.”


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