Is Poverty a Choice?

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That was true in my case. I could have gone on disability and settled for a lower class lifestyle. Instead I worked really hard to recover, went back to work, and have accumulated a lot of wealth that isn't typical for someone on the spectrum.

I wanted to give up.

I felt bad at age 36, my brain functioned badly, fired from many jobs, felt like a failure, no savings, no hope.

I would see 20-something people who were successful, and wish I could be.

However, I kept going and at like age 38, I got a STEM job I could make it at.

When and where did Marx criticize self interest?

Don't you think self interest manifests itself differently in different circumstances?

Last edited by RushKing on 16 Nov 2018, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Except all the times it didn't.

Central Europe, non-capitalist background here.

What actually is poverty? One day I saw an income-defined threshold of poverty and I discovered I had been poor for most of my life. I had no idea, I never considered myself poor
I mean, okay, I couldn't afford fashionable clothes, a new car every x years, eating out or expensive holidays - but my parents payed for my music school despite knowing I would never become a professional musician. Just because I wanted it for my self-development.
It's not as much about how much you earn, it's much more about what you spend on. So I could have holes in the roof above me and hunt for clothes in second hands but I have had decent education and never considered myself inferior.

Communism did not dig people out of poverty. It was horribly inefficient, compared to capitalism. And not any less corrupt.
On the other hand, I see those capitalist income-defined social classes and it's sad.
But maybe, as things become cheaper and cheaper, some kind of Star Trek utopia would be the future.

In one of his letters to Engels.The presentment may vary, but selfishness is universal.

What's your opinion on egoist communism?

Is Poverty a Choice; Really Will Literally/Metaphorically Be Prefaced With What is Poverty.

According to Dollar Amounts, Now; the 2018 Poverty Level For a Family of 2, is $16,460.

So, What this Means for me at Least Is; Even if all My Retirement Income Disappears Suddenly
if the Government Decides Federal Service Retirement is no Longer Solvent and the Fact that
I am Literally Assessed as Legally and Permanently Disabled For the Rest of My Life and My Wife too;
As Lord knows from the Outside-in we Look a Little Bit Like Batman and Wonder Woman at Age 58 and
48; but never the less Epilepsy for the Wife and Bi-Polar and Autism Spectrum Disorder For me is Naturally
Considered Incurable and to Go Back to Work For the Federal Government, I would have to Provide Evidence
From the Doctors that i am cured; and that’s not Gonna Happen; out of my Control as Hey I feel Great all ‘the time’;
Just another Symptom of Bi-Polar Ironically as such as Long as i stay High Enough and Low Enough not to float away.

By the WaY A ‘Huge’ Percentage of ‘Famous Poets’ Are Bi-Polar And Super Creative; As Mix That Now With A Rationality
of Asperger’s and that Keeps Heaven in Check enough not to Revert to Hell on Earth in that other Place i visited every
Day on the ‘Wrong Planet’ for 33 Months; until i escaped back on the ‘Right Planet’ in the Never Land For Most folks
that is the Reality of ‘StrawBerry Fields’ Forevernow, for me at least; Gifted in pArt like that From Birth; like my
Mother too; who Did Just Fine on Under 500 Dollars a Month From Social Security as She Refused the
Supplemental Entitlement Part of that as 500 Dollars was plenty enough for Her living as a Senior
Citizen for 20 More Years After Social Security Age at 62 in a Reduced Rent Living Place for
Seniors that was Quite Nice as an Apartment Complex Where She Was Naturally Happy
Enough With Smiles for the Little things of Life Like Love is enough with Shelter
And Children to Visit With Enough Food to Get By Each Month without
Any Food Stamps, or other Assistance; except for the 100 Dollars
Rent Each Month that was Very Reasonable as She was Happy too as
any Person i met on the Planet Earth then never Even Wanting Really to
Leave Her Home; as there were Plenty of Books to Read and Hobbies and New Hobbies to Develop too.

Some Folks are Born ‘Autotelic’ Like this Naturally Happy With Propensity Toward the Bi-Polar Spectrum Now;
No Different Really than Those Somewhere on a Broader Autism Phenotype; And sure She Probably Was Bi-Polar
Not 1 or 2 as Otherwise Specified Sort of like me where i stay High For Decades and Low For 66 Months now too.

Anyway, Since We are A Family of Two; and as Some folks Will Say what if the Social Security Does Go away and
the Federal Service Retirement too as We Don’t exactly and More Precisely; We do not Have Conservative Financial
‘Geniuses’ Like me as Republican Leaders (Credit the STEM part of Asperger’s as that Applies to me in Systemizing
Science Ways of Logic too; with all this Free Verse Mesmerizing Poetry now too, in Sing Song Fashion Just in Typed
Words Instead of How Hans Asperger’s Patients Often Did Verbally then too; per the Original GillBerg Criteria with a
Delay in Language Until Age 4 like Me in A Hyperlexic Version of Asperger’s Syndrome Born on Date as such on 6660
Where Doctor’s Just said, Your Children Are Hyperactive; And He Will Talk when he Gets Good and Ready too;
Which i did well enough to Obtain 3 College Degrees) Anyway; I’m a little too SmART For Conspiracy theories
Like the Sky is Falling in the Next Decade or So; but even if it did tomorrow with the ‘Financial
Genius Concept’ Attached with the Asperger’s Syndrome as me which really Just Means the
Bi-Polar Spectrum Flavor Allowed me Happiness Without Material Goods Enough to Save Enough
Money Without any Federal Retirement at all for Enough Money to Last the Next 20 Years; even if i had
to take it out of the Secured Financial Institutions and Bury it in the Back Yard without Interest; but it’s true
the Fact for now that Our Home is Paid off counts toward what very little i could most certainly Live off of way
less than the Poverty Level like my Mother; although the Wife would not like that at all for sure; but hey, Folks
Are Different; not everyone is Lucky enough to Have Bi-Polar and Asperger’s Syndrome Just for the Correct
Mix of Hell; Yes, Heaven now Real. Yeah; I will Not Deny That Those Poets who Wrote Most all the Religious Poetic
Texts; as Science may even Partially Suggest Now, Were Just talking about Something Close to Controlled Hypomania
As Heaven Within Now Real considering so many Folks who Write Deep Poetry like the Parables in the Bible are still
on the Bi-Polar Spectrum, at least for now; as otherwise You don’t get to Do Leonardo and Beethoven and Van Gogh
And Such as that And those Great Works of Science and Art and Music now; And Sure, if You are going to Paint
A Sistine Chapel Ceiling Over Years; You Dam Sure Better Be Suited to a Restricted Repetitive Special Interest
With Laser Focus that Just doesn’t Quit NoW iN one Pursuit in Unified Tasking ways; Either Sculpt or Paint;
But Not both Simultaneously Now. Anyway; It’s the Best Era Ever For Bi-Polar Folks With Asperger’s
Syndrome as the Laws are Written; WHeRe All Free Avenues are Provided as Palettes for Art
With a Canvas Free of Charge as Autotelic Folks Don’t Give A F; Yes, Fun about Materialistic
Goods and Power and Status Now; as We Generate our Happiness Within; Voila, Heaven That
KingQueenDom Belongs Exclusively to Us It Seems as ‘Chosen’ ones now Provided the Additional
Avenue of all Natural Human Evolution too; Jack Pot as they Say; Fortune Beyond And With Belief Real
As Science Shows now too; A ‘Perfect Storm’ of Social Welfare Nets With a “Perfect Storm”, WHere some of
Us Just Don’t Fit in Functionally to Do Work For Pay; Anyway; I understand what Hell and Heaven is Up Close
And Personal; And i Feel Really Bad for Folks who Need to Buy Stuff and Acquire Power and Status to Be Happy
For it’s true; it doesn’t take Nearly as Much Bucks to Live when the Bare Necessities of Happiness are Built in
Within.

Back to the Math of it though; And How that Applies to Most of the Folks on ‘this Website’ who are not nearly
As Fortunate, all things Considered, as me and My Wife are; the 12,140 Dollar Poverty Level For a Single Person
More Aptly Applies to all the Folks who are even Fortunate enough on this Website to be Working at 8.25 Dollars
iN A Minimum Wage Part Time Job, with Little to no Benefits in the United States today; So Let’s do the 40 Hour A
Week Math as one would Need to Make 233 Dollars A Week Rounded off to the Dollar to Make the
Poverty Level Work; as yes, 330 Dollars At 40 Hours Total a Week Does Make That A Reality now;
However, 30 Hours A Week is what you are Looking at; And less as the Service Sector is usually
30 Hours per Week; so yep that Makes 248 Dollars A Week Rounded off to the Nearest Dollar; but
one Literally Sinks Below the Poverty Level with 2 Hours less at 28 Hours a Week of Work at a Minimum
Wage Job; Granted if you Get a Job at What-A-Burger you may Start off at 10 Dollars An Hour but the Truth
Here; and Amongst Close to 50 Percent of New College Graduates; they are Living at Home Still with NO Job
at all; as they usually Aren’t Willing to Do Minimum Wage to Start Paying off Incredibly Large Student Loans.

Yep; there are Plenty of Jobs for Now; but just not Much Meaningful and Purposeful Work Even to A Point of Holy
And Sacred; Where one Really Feels They are Making a Difference in the World in a Hands on Touch of Subsistence
Items and Services Now they Produce For the Rest of the Human Species; Actually, Working Together for Common
Meaning and Purpose Now that really Feels Good as Work Should Do When it Actually Puts the Bread and Water
Not Only in Stomach Subsistence; but the Food and Drink of Love That Really Keeps our Souls Alive as
the Moving, Connecting, Co-Creating Way of Humans Who Survive and Thrive Together in a Dance
And Song of Life For Subsistence, Shelter, And Love that Does Feel Excellent Overall As An Adventure oF LiFE NoW.

A Poorest Human is Devoid of Soul AKA as A Trumpian Existence Now With A Billion Dollars whether that Number
is Real or not.

A Richest Human has Enough to Eat, Shelter, and Love And Does Move, Connect, and Co-Create With Others
Every Day of THeir Life; Dollar Amounts Become Invisible After That for Happiness As Science Suggests that
50 Thousand Bucks A year is about as much of what one will Make Before a Lottery Otherwise of Making
Bucks Doesn’t Account Much for the Weight of the Human Soul In Happiness Real; And With An Empty Soul
Now; A ‘Trumpian’ Way of Life Frowns Does Show Fully on Display now That it is inDeed as Difficult for
A Rich Person to Enter the Gates of Autotelic Being as it is for a Camel to Enter into the Eyes
of A Needle that is Sadly a Place that a Person Like Trump Will Likely Never See Behind the
Opaque
Window
of that other Place
iN Poverty of the Soul;
Jesus F iN Christ, i’ve met
Homeless Folks Under Warm
Beach Bridges Richer; Far Richer than
Trump Will Ever Likely Find Lost in a World
of Power and Status and Money that will Never
Fill the
Poverty
of A Camel
So Big and the
Eye of a Needle Soul
so small so small never HuuuggGe Now.

If one Doesn’t Feel Sorry For ‘Trumpians’;
Chances are one Doesn’t Really Know (Feel/Sense) What Is Love to Be Rich Now;
Even under a Warm Beach Bridge of the Homeless who are That Beautiful Beach oF LoVE iNCaRNaTE NoW.

Last edited by aghogday on 16 Nov 2018, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are things that may prevent peoples to work, like depression, or health problems; or, in my case, the unbearable boredom of doing repetitive work, aka the only jobs for someone of my credentials. I don't see how I could support repetitive work for 40 hours a week, I just can't. I also did tried to return to studies, but, beside the problem that where I live someone on welfare can only take two class at once, greatly slowing down studies, but I'm just too lazy to going back to it, and I certainly don't have the energy to "fight" and going against my character flaws.

I think it depends on the person. Some people are too trashy to try and better their lives or they simply cannot do better because of a disability or they live in a state of oppression where they basically aren't allowed to do better.

Also I hate the way society assumes that being too rich or too poor automatically makes you a bad person. Being poor does not make you a bad person and neither does being rich. Also taking away wellfare seems very unfair to the people who actually need it in order to survive. Are people in this world really so cold and heartless that they believe in taking away what little income a crippled person has to survive on and kicking them out on the streets to freeze and starve to death because they think everybody who gets a check from the government is being a lazy bum?

I mean they're basically thinking this.

Anti-Welfare Person: "Get a job and work for your home and your food you lazy bum!"

Disabled War Veteran in Wheelchair with PTSD: "But I can't even walk because my legs were blown out by a landmine!"

Anti-Welfare Person: "Oh boohoo! You're just a lazy bum and that ain't my problem!"

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Is there much else to say?

So never. Communists must has only existed since 1900s

I wouldnt say that poverty is a choice, but some poor people are lucky enough to be able to make choices that would get them out of poverty. Others aren't though, so it can't be a choice.

The Free Territory (7 million people)

Communes spread across Rojava

Zone to Defend, another present day example

The Free Territory lasted 3 years. I know, it was conquered, but my point is, it's too little time to prove sustainability.
The other examples also haven't lived long enough to prove internal stability.
For this I would require over 40 years, the examples above are not near.