God is evil or God does not exist

Post Reply New Topic

Assuming God created this world, then he has created a world of which the weak are being deprived of their basic human dignity and basic civil rights.

Examples include but no limited to:

* Limited right to vote. In many countries, people on welfare are deprived the right to vote. In the Danish Constitution it states that the lawmakers are free to deprive the recipients of welfare benefits the right to vote. Though this has not been in use since 1964, the Constitution is clear and a lot of people support re-instating the limit to universal suffrage.

* Weak being made homeless as a result of welfare reforms. Homeless people are also often physically attacked and robbed, and the police refuse to do anything about it. In Denmark, homeless people can be jailed following a 2018-law made by the Conservative government, simply for being homeless. Homelessness is a crime in itself in Denmark.

* Anyon expressing their dissatisfaction with the way weak people are treated, face ridicule, verbal and even physical attack. If you dare to question the welfare reforms, you are subject to being called a "traitor", "stalinist" etc.

God allows this to happen, because if God exists, God likes to have scapegoats.

There's actually a conversation to be had about this but I somewhat doubt it would be appropriate to the thrust/aim of the thread.

We have a lot of old ideas that are out of line with reality. Many people here would argue that sky-father style theism with Zeus sitting on a cloud thrown brooding over us is resoundingly dead. I'd agree with that and raise the ante that mechanistic materialism is on it's way out the same door right now and still going through it's rather violent denial stage of grief.

That said I don't think this thread is about questioning ultimate reality, it's about how people treat each other and how bizarre it is for people to want to worship a being assumed to have unlimited power, perfect knowledge, having created a Darwinian dystopia with that perfect knowledge, and it's even rendered more absurd when it rates individual aspects of its creation worthy of heaven or hell when there's no the slightest gram of evidence for free will. To that I'd say yes, If Christianity, Judaism, and Islam want to go on I think they'd really want to look much more toward Plotinus and veer much more toward a sort of pantheistic abstract or emanated concept - other than that such monotheism was a powerful adaptive strategy when people needed to be united to fight together and demonize military enemies, now it's no longer in an environment that makes it effective.

I agree that there is no free will.
However, the free will doesn't matter either. What matters is our perception of the terms "free" and "will". We certainly do have will, but it is not free, but it feels like we're free to make our will.

To me, the important thing is our illusion of having liberty. So long as we can have that illusion, it doesn't matter that we're trapped in a prison of our brain.

In relation to God, I think we should abandon the idea of an omnipotent deity. Rather we should focus on either a wide range of deities each being personifications of various human instincts and desires.

Or we could have just one deity being a personification of goodness. Goodness here being defined as helping the sick, weak and physically/mentally disabled including autistics, and not deliberately inflicting pain for the sake of harm.

However, that deity is likely dead already, as I think a lot of humans really do like to inflict harm/pain on innocent people if the victim is weak.

You can't even have an imaginary fairy tale deity, without it becoming yet another excuse for committing atrocities.

That's human nature: To be cruel.

I just hope that enough humans have less bad and more good in them.

I didn't realise God was a democrat. Must have missed that in Sunday school.

I think Sam Harris and Robert Sapolsky are some of the most progressive thinkers on how that should impact criminal justice and all kinds of other areas. One of the challenges with our Darwinian programming is our in-built urge to ace out and dominate others to get our genes into the next generation and if it's not us dominating our competition it's us dominating our family or tribe's competition, and to that extent we love stigmas, we love vilifying 'evil-doers' because it's part of how we signal who it's appropriate to do what to, attack, take possessions away from, etc.


There is some form of hope in people taking the sort of Israel Regardie 'psychologizing' deity approach even to the extremes of personal practice and mysticism, but at the same time I'm somewhat hopeful that it may not be necessary.

I have some optimism that science will get its fingernails under the problem. I say that because the sort of 'ICloud' that Gad Saad often pokes fun of when criticizing Carl Jung seems like it gets met from so many angles in altered states, different ways of trying to solve the 'hard problem', it seems like that link between having that be a prolific human experience to actually crossing over into something scientifically verifiable is practically within reach. If it's a big group organism that wants to parentally hug, hold, and nourish it's returning members but has little to do with the fundamental shaping of reality we'll be in a very different place - ie. a place where we can actually grasp what it is we come from, what the needs are of the organism (for lack of a better term) that we come from, we might have the tools to hedge the ravages of Darwinian survival of the fittest, might makes right, the strong trample the weak, etc. with some countervailing thing with just as much reality to it. Until then, regrettably, people will probably be carrying out the same dead but effortless 'Are you an atheist or theist? If so discuss/debate the other side'.

What worries me more than anything is that if we keep on the same course we're quite possibly headed for a hellscape dystopia where your right to exist isn't just the money you have but the true dissolution of merit having any say in the matter, capacity having any say in the matter, and really a culture that would condone sadistically killing all but the tiny crew who ended up the victors. It's a horrific enough picture that I feel like we should be trying to pull on any chords in reality we can find to locate antidotes to that vision.

1. God is a human creation.

2. Humans are evil. They like to bash the weak and disabled people. Humans love to ridicule, verbally and violently physically attack people who are less fortunate than themselves.

3. Therefore, the human created deity must be evil. Not a Democrat, but a Republican.

In other words: God supports Trump.

The nub of the issue that the OP is raising seems to be:

God is either evil, or nonexistent.
Those are the only two possibilities.

So which thing is he?

If he is real then why does evil exist in the world? Why does God allow innoncent children to have terminal cancer etc? And so on.

To which the rest of us have to answer with either (A) you, OP, are wrong. God can be/is just and righteous, and here is how and why. Or with (B) you're right OP, god does not exist. Or you're right god exists and is evil. Then you we could subdivided the latter respondents between "not exist" and "exists but is evil". Except most would go for the former because the later would be a rather inane type of God to believe in.

There is an escape clause for God allowing him to be existent and just. And that would be for there to exist an afterlife of some sort (either heaven/hell, or reincarnation, karma of some kind) in which the wicked are punished and the suffering get some kind of reward.

Not Democrat, democrat.

It doesn't change the conclusion though.

Humans are evil. Therefore, the majority would vote for an evil type of government or parliamentary situation, where disabled people are being denied basic human rights and physically abused/violently attacked.

If God created humans, he certainly did it well. He also did a fantastic job in shaping man in His own image, as humans are the most cruel (EVIL) creatures in the entire Universe.

I bet you can't even find ET/Aliens with more evil minds than mankind.

Since the dawn of time, disabled people have been left alone to be eaten by wolves. Then in the 20th century, they were gassed.

Things got "better" in the 21st century where they are only jailed if the become homeless, or deprived of their food and shelter and required to work despite experts saying work is harmful for their health due to their disabilities.

There's a lot of ways to be mean. Humans love to be mean, especially to those who can't defend themselves.

And they say aspies have no empathy? NT's got the ability to "read the minds" but they're using it solely for the purpose of knowing where the wound is, only to know what to do in order to hurt the victim most, so to speak.

It's the very definition of a psychopath. I guess at least 50 % of all humans are psychopaths.
The rest are in denial.

I don’t come to that conclusion at all.

I don’t believe 50% of the population are psychopaths, and the other 50% are in denial.

Everyone's trying to survive, and when the landscape only allows honesty to flow congruently with survival on rare lucky instances it's no wonder human integrity is rare.

We seem to live in a world where the quick and dirty of it is this - if someone can dominate, or even kill you, they're superior to you. If they're a low-life, then you're below what they are. That's not a moral philosophy, it's just how absolutely loveless nature is. I think we have only two angles of having any prayer of overcoming that monstrosity - 1) technology used right to elevate culture and elevate the value of life, 2) some deeper realization the law of mass murderer = king of supermen is defeated by our basis coming from something with very different rules than the landscape.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 30 Mar 2019, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I... don't know what is going on here anymore. I was led to believe that this was another variation of the "If God is good, why does evil exist?" argument, but we have apparently already jumped to the conclusion that he doesn't exist and humans are irredeemably evil therefore God is evil, but he doesn't exist so.... blah? Also voting is a human right, but Rights are an invention of human minds, therefore rights are evil too I guess. f**k it.

I might suggest mandatory drug testing before posting on wrongplanet, but I would miss techstep too much.

THAT is for sure.

The Universe is either an anarchy, or a monarchy.

I believe that theists and atheists both can agree that the cosmos is definitely NOT a democracy.

... he created a world that was once perfect, until human disobedience invited Sin into the world. The world was perfect, until humans had to screw it all up.

Everything else you said in your original post is based on imperfect human "reasoning", and is therefore irrelevant to any indictment of God.

Embrace witchcraft! It's self-empowering!

Third option: God is good, but his powers aren't unlimited. Some other force that causes evil exists.

...Not that I believe in god, but since there was a question...