Why do people assume the Democrats are socialists?

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Shahunshah
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11 Jun 2019, 6:57 am

This is something that more and more is beginning to annoy me. I keep here people on this chat, very nice but conservative people refer to the Democratic party as being an cabal of socialists, determined to bring what was tried and failed to Venezuela to America.

There is just a couple of problems in that. There is nothing in the platform of mainstream Democratic politicians who wield strong political power that indicates they support such a policy. Take for instance Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House or Chuck Schumer in the Senate the two most powerful democrats. Both of them oppose Medicare for all. As does the 2020 frontrunner, Joe Biden. When it comes to the rest of the developed world, there is a consensus around single payer healthcare yet no matter what you might say, the Democrats are far too right wing to ever accept it as a policy.

Now lets look at fiscal policy and the records left by the last two democratic presidents, Obama and Clinton. Obama cut taxes for lower and middle class families when coming into office, extending the Bush tax cuts, (Conservative policy). As for Clinton not only did he do similar policies but he cut benefits for Single mothers, the disabled and the most vulnerable in society.

Why then do people say that the Democrats are socialist, and not simply Republican lite? The legacy of Democratic policy for the past 10 years has been one of drone strikes, capitulation and conservative economics. There is nothing liberal in that.

But the Republicans feel they have to portray the Democrats as ideologues. But here is the simple truth, the Democrats do not have the backbone that is necessary to be the ideologues think we are. The party is simply too pathetic and weak.

And with that their is a multitude you can criticize the Democrats for. Racism for example is a tool within the Democratic party that is toyed with when necessary. It was Clinton who for instance helped extenuate the war on drugs and further mass incarceration. And we are not politically correct, Democrats VOTED to extend the Patriot Act, a measure which allowed for warrantless discriminatory spying and for in some cases the indefinite detention of foreign arrivals.

But for some reason, so many Conservatives being as unwitty as they are have to play the game of branding the party as far left as a talking point. That is not only dishonest, it is just a dumb line of attack. Attack the party on something else. Plenty of source material there.



Fnord
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11 Jun 2019, 8:33 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Why Do People Assume The Democrats Are Socialists?
Because Democrats have a history of (a) raising taxes to pay for social welfare programs, (b) an expansive and intrusive government, and (c) dictating what "proper" speech and attitudes should be.

(a) Tax-And-Spend: "The Left" uses its wealth to gain political power. This is a hallmark of Socialism. They gain power and influence by making immigrants, minorities and women dependent on governmental largess, and then "requesting" those constituents to vote for Democrats and their policies.

(b) Socialized Business: Public Education, Organized Labor, and most of The Media are already under Socialist control. If you cannot afford a good education for your children, then send them to a government-run public school -- just be sure to allow the teachers free rein in the secular subject matter; if you have few or no marketable skills, then get a Union job or invite a Union to represent all of the unskilled laborers in your workplace -- just be sure to pay your dues on time and never question the leadership; if you want news you can trust, then tune in to your favorite publicly-funded news source -- just be sure to cough up a huge wad of cash during pledge week in exchange for a cheap tote bag or novelty mug.

(c) Political Correctness: They're not criminals, they are "Victims of Society"; they are not poor and lazy, they are "Disadvantaged" and "Underprivileged"; they are not homeless, they are "Housing Challenged"; and they are not illegal aliens, they are "Undocumented Immigrants". Political Correctness can be a form of linguistic fascism, in that the arbiters of what is "Politically Correct" are the most intolerant group of individuals on the planet.

Furthermore, Socialism as a form of government that continuously expropriates private capital until all the industry in the country has been nationalized, or until the country’s economy has been run into the ground, whichever comes first. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money, and then the economy spirals down into oblivion, and a truckload of currency is not enough to buy even one loaf of bread to feed your children.


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uspe
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11 Jun 2019, 8:42 am

both democrats and republicans are ideologues.



Fnord
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11 Jun 2019, 8:50 am

uspe wrote:
both democrats and republicans are ideologues.
:roll: Apropos of nothing.


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madbutnotmad
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11 Jun 2019, 10:42 am

The true definition of Democracy is a system of government that controlled by a group of individuals that for the most part all hold an equal share, with perhaps the ideal Democracy being made up of all the members of society.

This of course is the opposite to a government that is run with one or a select few members which make up a dictatorship style government, which is totalitarian in nature, giving the members of society no choice as to how they live or the values they hold.

George Soros, who you may or may not like has written a fair amount on the subject. Haven experienced life under both totalitarian dictatorships (Communist, Nazi) and Democratic. Through experience, he came to the conclusion that totalitarian style governments were bad, and democratic governments were more fair to the individuals who live under such governments.

Perhaps you guys could argue the pro's and cons of both, and perhaps consider what life would be life not only as the people in power, but people who are not in power.



Fnord
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11 Jun 2019, 10:45 am

We're discussing Democrats here, not Democracy.

Perhaps you could start your own thread on George Soros, instead of trying to derail this thread.


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12 Jun 2019, 3:20 am

It is a Republican campaign strategy to paint Democrats as socialists because for older voters the term remains scary because of its association ruthless communism. Older people usually vote more often then younger people.

In the last 3 years a socialist wing of the Democratic Party has emerged especially among younger voters for whom the words individualist and capitalist have a negative association with the Great Recession they grew up with. Arguably the Democrats who get the most media attention are the socialists Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. A lot of mainstream Democrats seem scared of this wing and have adopted some of their policies. All of this does the Republicans work for them. If the 2016 results, 2018 results and current polling are any indication the fear of this wing is unjustified.


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12 Jun 2019, 4:19 am

The far-right keep insisting it and the centre-left have stopped fighting it because they realize the right has been crying wolf on this for so long a whole generation of voters have grown up being told 'socialism = moderate centrist mixed market economics' by Murdoch's propaganda networks and those ideologically aligned with them.

Basically, the right has succeeded at redefining socialism for most people.


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Biscuitman
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12 Jun 2019, 4:42 am

I think it is just something that right leaning people shout at the Dems as an insult, as socialism seems to have an almost universally bad name in the U.S, which is not so much the case in many other parts of the world.



Pepe
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12 Jun 2019, 4:47 am

Fnord wrote:
uspe wrote:
both democrats and republicans are ideologues.
:roll: Apropos of nothing.



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uspe
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Fnord.
Pull your head in mate.
I can't stand bullies and will call them out.

Let uspe find his feet.
This is first and foremost a support website.

Is what I am doing against WP policy?
Time will tell. 8)


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funeralxempire
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12 Jun 2019, 7:51 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
I think it is just something that right leaning people shout at the Dems as an insult, as socialism seems to have an almost universally bad name in the U.S, which is not so much the case in many other parts of the world.


I believe that seems to largely be a generational thing, at least based on years of polling and research done by Frank Luntz.


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Shahunshah
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12 Jun 2019, 9:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
I think it is just something that right leaning people shout at the Dems as an insult, as socialism seems to have an almost universally bad name in the U.S, which is not so much the case in many other parts of the world.


I believe that seems to largely be a generational thing, at least based on years of polling and research done by Frank Luntz.

I don't think any of us can afford to understate the effectiveness of Frank Luntz when it came to destroy political consensus. Words such as "Death Tax" and "Climate Change" instead of Global warming first became popularized due to the slick skilled marketing he was able to perform. And with Obamacare he was able to market a moderate right leaning proposal as a prime example of government takeover. In fact it is estimated that in the 2010 period around 21% of DEMOCRATS believed death panels might be a result of the Affordable Care Act.



EzraS
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12 Jun 2019, 9:46 pm

Because most of the democrats I have come across express a desire for socialism and condemn capitalism.



PurpleReject
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12 Jun 2019, 11:44 pm

Because people don't actually know what socialism or communism really are, including many people who'd claim to be one or the other. It's an erroneously-used partisan slur. Anyone with a legitimate far-left ideology is inherently against the majority of what the Democratic Party stands for...they are literally against the entire system of which both parties are a part of. To them, Democrats and Republicans are merely two sides of the same worthless coin. Any "socialist" who supported warmongering stooges like Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama are about as "socialist" as John Wayne. Righties calling Democrats socialists and communists makes as much sense to me as calling them anarchists.

Basically, to flip it around, it's no different than people who say that all Republicans are fascists or Nazis, and those reasons being 1) they don't have a solid understanding of either ideology, 2) they're Americanized to a point where literally ALL political schools of thought must fit into either Democrat or Republican, and 3) their communication skills never evolved beyond requiring empty, meaningless insults to hurl at people whom they disagree with. Democrats and Republicans calling each other socialists and fascists is just a fancier way of saying "You suck!" and "No, YOU suck!".



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13 Jun 2019, 2:31 am

PurpleReject wrote:
Because people don't actually know what socialism or communism really are.


agree on that too. There is an anti socialism thread on WP which illustrates your point perfectly