Health, Bull, Society, and Neurodiversity

Post Reply New Topic

Not entirely sure where else to post this, so posting it here.

Back from the netherworld (actually, from a loss of the novelty a year ago of talking to neurodiverse people about the wonders and variations of the human mind) to share some thoughts that I feel suddenly passionate about and eager to discuss.

They've been inspired by hearing about an Aspie suicide elsewhere on the net, which you guys have probably been eagerly discussing.

Some of the psychology that I read for fun makes the claim that, because so many "psychologically healthy" people have been found to be profoundly full of bull, BS is apparently a "necessary evil" for mental health, a sign of the proper functioning of the left brain.

Maybe there's a grain of truth to this, but I now suspect that a lot of the stretching and hiding of the truth that we NTs are so famous for is fundamentally unnecessary, and is actually a coping mechanism that we specifically develop to get along in a society that doesn't tend to help anyone of any neurological persuasion to develop a truly healthy and well-grounded self-image.

And when we put these kinds of pressures on people who for whatever reason cannot find any easy way to live up to even the minimum requirements - which includes many neurodiverse people - rather than exposing ourselves to the possibility of doing wrong and therefore feeling that we must punish ourselves for being "bad" people, we blame the misfortunes on something that we can't be responsible for, like a "terrible neurological disease" that needs to be "cured" to avoid more of these misfortunes.

It's unfortunate and probably unnecessary that any neurodifferent should have to suffer for not being able to play the silly games, and that any neurotypical should have to hide from themselves in order to avoid self-rejection and rejection from others for being a "bad" person instead of looking for real, specific explanations of what went wrong and real, specific solutions.

Autistic-spectrum people could offer a lot to the world with their idiosyncratic ways of perceiving it, rather than being seen as "ill" and suffering painful rejection for not being able to go with the arbitrary flow of NT society.

NTs don't have to be dishonest and intolerant if we're exposed to conditions that can lead us to use our flexibility in more creative and efficient ways than playing arbitrary games with each other and ourselves and trying to keep these games alive out of fear.

Social illness is tragic. Too many people of all kinds suffer and die from the ravages of social illness.

Last edited by GhostsInTheWallpaper on 10 Jan 2007, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It may not be a sign of a properly functioning left brain, but a necessary requirement. It may also be insufficient as many people with a load of BS going on in their brain may not necessarally be "psychologically healthy", i.e. pathological liars. However, a certain amount of BS is necessary in society in order to cut down on the stress and anxiety of confrontation. Confrontation in turn destroys friendships and possibilities for friendships.

There is a pre-requisite of dishonesty involved in most relationships as first impressions tend to outweight 2nd and 3rd impressions. If someone were to give you the impression that they had a whole boatload of problems first, or were rude, self-absorbed, etc, you probably wouldn't give them a chance to show you that they were a good person. However, if you thought that someone was a good person first, then they slowly revealed their little quirks, some would find it endearing. Dishonesty allows for the opportunity for honesty.




The first premise seems to contradict the second. If stretching and hiding were mechanisms that were specifically developed to get along in society, then they may in fact be necessary actions in order to fit in a society, otherwise they would not have come about. Imagine if everyone suddenly lost their ability to hide their true feelings, there would be an enormous amount of conflict. Children are a good example, children are brutally honest because they haven't yet learned the "game" of socializing. There are some things that you MUST keep to yourself in order to function in certain social situations. People are too diverse to hold the same opinions and standards, thus forcing the need for BS. A world free of BS would only work if everyone held the same standards and opinions on everything.

I used to work in an insurance company handling accident claims. There was no shortage of screaming customers who felt they were being "wronged". My running joke was that we would handle the situations like "adults", i.e., we would be professional and courteous to their face, then wait until they left to tear into them. Whereas on the other hand, a child would be upfront with them right away, and not have to result to talking s*** about them only after they left.

This seems to be the way that most adult situations are handled involving friendships and relationships. To be upfront with someone is to create conflict, but, we all need to reveal out true feelings to someone eventually because humans do not respond well to keeping things bottled up, so we talk about our true feelings behind peoples backs in order to find a balance between needing to maintain the relationship, and the need to confess our true feelings.



Yes, it is unfortunate and tragic that people who are not able to play the "game" of socializing are left out, but the primary purpose of a society is not to better each other (it may be a secondary purpose), but to function as a group. Order ranks above improvement because without order, improvement cannot occur. Functioning as a group seems to only work at the expense of honesty because of the different opinions that everyone has. There are groups of people who will never get along because of their different values, thus, trying to "work things out" in an honest and straightforward manner is an unreasonable expectation where competing values clash. It is not possible to be friends with everyone as we are all just too different, yet society is a forced "friendship" between everyone in the community. Thus, where different opinions and values clash, the only way to reconcile competing interests is to put on a facade of dishonesty.

Imagine a society where everyone walked around with their opinions on their clothes. The conflict that this would cause! People are just too diverse to be brutally honest with each other. And, it will always be those in the minority who pay the price.

Re: confrontation: does BS *have* to be the way to do prevent aggression? Why do people have to find the truth so threatening? My theory is that they're insecure. They believe that any little flaw will damn them. And the way society is set up right now, showing that flaw could very well close opportunities for them. But that doesn't mean that hiding flaws is therefore absolutely necessary in principle. It should especially not be necessary to hide *themselves* from their flaws, because even if others reject them, why should they reject themselves? I think that if we had a society that saw these flaws in a different light - as problems to be solved, judged on the demerits of their effects on the greater system of life, and not on principle as a mark that stigmatizes - hiding, especially from oneself, would not be necessary.

Of course, building a whole new philosophy of society from scratch would be no easy task. And I will not back down from accusations of being more than just an idealistic dreamer. I hope to refine such a new philosophy and at least apply it to myself, and share it with others...but at this stage I have serious doubts as to how far I'd go in advocating societal change.

I find moral superiority to be as untenable as the "special identities" I craved at varying points in my life including my rather recent bouts of autism-envy. Even if I fill myself with great intentions, like personally opposing the view of autism as a disease as opposed to part of the wide range of ways of being human, I am still eventually left to become suspicious of my own motives: why do I want to take this supposed high ground anyway? And will I ever put my ideals into any kind of action, even in terms of how I live my own life (e.g. promoting my ideal of accepting different ways to be human by accepting and working with my own way of being human instead of playing the same old "better vs. worse" game backwards and hating the limitations of my neurotypicality)? No identity other than "human being" cuts it, and even this identity is temporary given that I will one day die and no longer be a human being.

If first impressions mean that you won't be able to prove yourself a good person, maybe the concept of a good person needs to be viewed more critically. Evil will not be denied, but people need not be written off only in principle; however, they may need to be written off in practice if it is judged that their potential for damage in a certain situation is too great. And then, they need only be written off in whatever area in which they threaten damage.

People can have differing opinions as long as they manage to be committed to the common goal despite them.

And I'm not yet convinced that people in general cannot understand others as having a common goal without having to overdo the displays of common interest through false conformity.

If people have to suppress differences on the outside, then perhaps they can commit to problem-solving on the inside.

Just as society can train people's worse nature to prevail, it can train people's better nature to prevail as well. In theory at least.

I can see that but I disagree. I actually rid of a friend because OF his fear of confrontation. It got so bad, all he ever did was agree with everyone. He turned out to be a liar and dishonest so I rid of him. I prefer them ALL be honest/truthful.

Ghost, I agree with you - the truth shouldnt be threatening. Maybe its only threatening because the world revolves around disillusion. I never knew how bad it was until I was "awakened" at the beginning of last year, but now that I see it, its rough.