What do you think about 100% free university education?

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Advantages and disadvantages of free university studies? In Poland, higher education is almost completely free, some postulate payment for medical studies or for other highly specialized studies (STEM) like medical studies and engineering.


The party of Janusz Korwin Mikke, an ultra-right pro-capitalist party who has recently joined our parliament, calls for this solution.

They complain that they are compared to the Nazis, when they are simply pro-capitalist, but not for capitalism understood as taking care of the interests of the People's Republic of China, Russia, Great Britain, France or even United Nations, but above all and only our national capital.

Therefore, they do not like the fact that our state educates many high-class specialists, often world-class, only that these people immediately after graduating go to Germany, treating as doctors of old farts from Waffen-SS earning on EUR, GDP or in some case USD, while being educated for public money from Polish People.

They say that they are far from praising communist regimes because commies only deserve bullets, but in Communist Cuba, health care is totally free for Cubans nationals, and medical education is free but would be Cuban doctor, need to works for 10-20 years paying their education to the Cuban government.

In Belarus it is similar, it's a poor country, but it is wise and common sense that education is free, but specialists must do their education working for the society that has paid for their education.

That they think that only higher education in the humanities could be financed from public funds without restrictions

That it should be a bit like the transfers of players, that the French football club Paris Saint-Germain paid FC Barcelona 222 million euros for the transfer of a footballer, which was a record in football, for what let it be with doctors educated for public money? Why would a Polish educational doctor pay attention to our taxes, including health care contributions, to treat Germans or Brits?

According to Korwin at the Ministry of Higher Education (we have two ministries, the Ministry of National Education, responsible for schools and high schools, and the Ministry of Higher Education responsible for higher vocational schools, universities and polytechnics, etc.)

According to Koriwna, in the ministry of higher education, paradoxically work morons, in his opinion, it would be best to introduce full payment for higher education, with at most subsidized loans, as it is in the US

I like free education myself.

But at least some of these new doctors should remain in Poland.

I'm for it. Free medical care, too.

Nothing is truly free, it is just different methods of payment.

Worth noting that private universities in the U.S. are the best in the world.

The benefits of university education tend to accrue largely to the student, so it is my opinion that students should also pay a sizeable share of the cost. I quite like the British system although it is not perfect.

This contrasts with early years education, which is an effective way to improve outcomes and benefits society at large. However, before the age of five, most societies will force parents to pay for childcare. Given the choice between funding free pre-school (or increasing funding for primary schools) or funding universities, I would choose pre-schools, as these are a public good.

I am opposed to nearly all restrictions on immigration and particularly emigration. Migration in search of higher wages tends to benefit *both* countries, and Poland is actually one of the best examples of that. When Polish doctors come to Britain (usually to be underemployed in relatively menial tasks), they earn more money and send it home for their dependents. That benefits both the dependents themselves and the wider Polish economy, which gets an injection of liquidity.

If the Polish government doesn't want skilled professionals emigrating to Britain and France to become plasterers, then they should pay their doctors more rather than banning them from leaving the country. Carrots are better than sticks.

I don't necessarily disagree but I think we have to be very careful with international comparisons of universities. They tend to skew very heavily towards English-language universities. Maybe the top ten being British and American is genuinely fair, but when you see Canada and Australia outperforming France, Germany, and Italy, and likewise for mid-ranking British and American universities, I get suspicious that I'm not looking at an objective measure.

Where does vocational training fall into this "free" paradigm?
Will plumbers, carpenters and electricians be paying for the education of lawyers, brokers and doctors?

I don't know, but the apprenticeship programs in the skilled trades seems to have worked well enough so far.

I mean, apprentices start earning wages on the first day.

Absolutely, totally, inextricably for it.
Just don't use my tax dollars.

Fnord: you probably know about this.

It it actually easy for someone right outside of trade school to get a journeyman position?

I heard it's hard to get into some of these vocational unions.

I experienced both - a German diploma (free) and a paid MA in the UK, at a rather elite institution.

As far as experience goes, the free education in Germany came with a lot of freedom and the necessity of self-organisation. BUT, I did have to turn in *something* at the end of the term to pass.

In the UK, there was a lot of self-imposed pressure among the students, and everyone was focussed on making it worth the money... BUT people basically all passed, as long as they paid.

Both systems only really worked for organised and driven students, but in the German one, you could fail academically, without ending in debt.
And in the British, you couldn't fail academically, but racked up debt, either way.

I think the important difference is that in the German system, you had time to figure out what you're good at and what area or specialization you are interested in.

The British one was great if you already knew you were in the right field etc. - which maybe isn't great for everyone - judging from my co-students falling into depression and self doubt, ever increasing the pressure on themselves, because, you know, debt.
About half tge students in my year needed therapy, one even dropped out and went straight to a psychiatric hospital.
We were only 16 in my course that year, so we knew each other well and what ailed everyone... So, yeah, that was weird.

Anyway. I think burdening young people with crushing debt is not a good idea, from a psychological perspective. Even if they technically know they're going to be able to pay it, living like this in your twenties is appearing to do more harm than good.

Oh, and: the seriously depressed among my British friends have by now basically dropped out of the labour force.

I'd rather believe that the universities should be cheaper than free.

From my personal experience, nothing is free.

I love the idea of free university. It should at least be free for students whose families are below the poverty line. In the long run, I’d imagine that’d save the government some money and might be a great place to start. We could build on that.

I do think that if there was such a program for needy families career counseling (that includes aptitude tests and, perhaps, some paid days job shadowing various fields one is interested in) would be a sensible requirement.

It would help the family out in the long run and would even out the playing field somewhat because families coming from labor backgrounds with no college experience (or even high school diplomas) would find every step of the process overwhelming. Heck, it’s overwhelming for everyone!

A sensible use of tax dollars.

(As a disclaimer, I’m from a working class family - and even used to work with my dad - so I’m not trying to belittle groups of people, etc. I’m just familiar with the complexities here.)

I like the way you talk about this.

For it, as long as the degrees are in worthy subjects and are held to exacting academic standards. In our current system free university would probably only compound the problem of joke degrees and an increasingly under-educated, borderline ret*d population.

Agreed.
If people have the ability, they shouldn't be hamstrung because they don't have the funds.

And education benefits the entire nation long term, after all.

Interesting point.