Trump/neocon/Israeli/Saudi/Al Qaeda lies dismantled

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https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... ssion=true

Weird title.

Informative post from Murray.

My view is that the world is probably slightly better off with Suleiman dead, but much worse off with him assassinated. He seems to have been behind Iran's recent military adventurism. I don't think this has remotely killed "hundreds of Americans". The incident where the contractor was killed seems less worthy of retaliation than the earlier incidents with ships. This can't really be justified as national self-defence and is only likely to further inflame relations between Iran and the US.

Murray is right that the Saudis are probably responsible for more terrorism, and certainly more international terrorism, than the Iranians. It's probably right that we have avoided war with the Saudis, but we should also avoid war with the Iranians. It was a clear and obvious error when Trump tore up the peace agreement. I'm not sure I buy the argument that the disparity is down to oil. Yes, the Saudis have huge oil reserves, but Iran are right behind them.

I think Murray is well wide of the mark when he says that the West doesn't oppose Sunni (and I would qualify, Salafi) terrorism. What does he think was the cause of the war in Afghanistan? Does he not remember us bombing Daesh? Nobody in the West says "Sunni good, Shia bad".

I don't think an actual war is likely. Iran's geography would make it much harder to invade than Iraq, and there is no desire for a repeat of Afghanistan. Nonetheless, we should make every effort to go back to the 2016 arrangements. It's probably the main reason we need to get any Democrat into the White House.

US weapons and US Toyota trucks are used by ISIS. We only bombed ISIS in Raqqa, along with loads of civilians that we pretend to care about. We have supported Al Qaeda in Syria and Libya and fought against those fighting them. The Iranian commander was training Iraqis to fight ISIS. His killing was for Israel.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ssion=true

https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Who-are ... hzBjaJn7kY

Agree that it is a bit of a kick in the teeth that Trump told Netanyahu but not Britain, but I don’t think we can necessarily say it was “for Israel”. Certainly Israel benefits but in all probability Trump does too.

I’m not sure what you mean by “we only bombed ISIS in Raqqa”. Do you mean the UK? Because while I’m not sure that’s strictly right, the bigger issues are that it isn’t really relevant to discussion about the US. The US has bombed ISIS across much of their Syrian and Iraqi territory, most notably around Mosul, as well as Afghanistan (where the UK increased ground forces and Trump dropped the MOAB), Yemen, Somalia, and Libya.

It’s just plain fiction to say that we supported al-Qaeda in Syria and Libya. We opposed some of AQ’s enemies, but that’s because AQ is enemies with everyone, be they supporters of Assad and Gadaffi, ISIS, or good people. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend! The LIFG was designated a terrorist group by the US, UK, and UN; they would sometimes fight alongside US-backed rebels but didn’t have the Us backing themselves. I don’t think I even need to explain that al-Nusra has been consistently opposed by Western forces. The Western nations have supported the Kurds, and other moderate Syrian rebels such as the old FSA.

The world is a complex place and one cannot understand it if one refuses to consider the possibility of subtlety and complexity.

It is pure fiction to call the head chopping Jihadists 'moderate'. You can't moderately chop someone's head off or moderately eat someone's organs. You are spewing uneducated fiction and covering for Israel. I don't want to see another damn word defending those animals that murdered children in front of parents and locked people in cages. They are Al Qaeda offshoots, including ISIS. You are repeating the tripe from the mainstream lying corporate media and it won't wash. I know you don't like that we have supported Al Qaeda and it doesn't fit your narrative so don't bother engaging in a discussion if you can't face reality. It is sheer tripe that we opposed Al Nusra, SKY NEWS drives around with them. We fund the 'white helmets' that are Al Nusra with hats on.

http://armswatch.com/islamic-state-weap ... es-part-1/

Pritti Patel went to Israel to try to give our taxes to Israeli hospitals treating in the Golan heights treating Al Qaeda and ISIS fighters and patching them up to go and kill Syrians. And NO, it wasn't cause of care for our enemies.

I'm talking about Raqqa in Syria and when I say "we" I mean the West. Yeah the US has helped Al Qaeda and ISIS in Yemen too for Israel. Congress members showed it was for Israel when some tried to pull out of Yemen and others said it would hurt Israel. Israel wants their allies Saudi Arabia to have control of the Straits of Hormuz cause they know Iran can close it.

Don't lecture me son. You don't know a damn thing.

Unfortunately John, almost everything in your post is just plain wrong, and transparently so. You’re not really in a position to accuse other people of ignorance when you think that groups as diverse as Israel, ISIS, the White Helmets, and the early FSA are all the same thing. That’s just embarrassingly untrue. It is important to recognise the difference between good and evil, truth and lies, reliable sources and random know-nothings. They are not the same thing. Unfortunately in almost every conversation you struggle to differentiate between them and then get angry at other people for correcting you.

Like I said, don't lecture me kid. You've been proven wrong time and again and just come back with the same tripe. Sky News nutters like Alex Crawford were driving around with 'moderate rebels' but not everyone shares your ignorance and it was pointed out she was driving around with Al Qaeda, and then she shat herself and tried to wriggle out of it. The groups we have supported (evil) makes us evil whether you can deal with that reality is up to you. I've been doing this a long time and you don't know anything. You thought giving Libya to Al Qaeda was a good idea (and yes those Wahabbist head choppers rolling down the streets on our tanks screaming "Allahu Akbar were Al Qaeda), they just have different names. The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (clue's in the name!). The Manchester bomber was almost certainly trained by British forces in Libya and helped through airport security by us. I know these facts won't fit your hilariously absurdly wrong narrative and they are upsetting, but you'll have to grow up and accept reality.

Why don’t we stop putting words into each other’s mouths and actually state our positions and what we understand of the other’s position? You clearly haven’t understood mine if you think I support the LIFG

My position is that the best people in Libya and Syria are the moderate liberals opposed to both the Assadists (in Syria)/Gadaffi (in Libya) and the Islamists. I would point to groups such as the Kurds, the FSA in 2011, and today the Free Idlib Army as groups that should have full Western support. These groups have fought against ISIS and Assad, and usually fight AQ and AN unless they need to form uneasy alliances against ISIS. However, situations are fluid and hard for me to track as an individual.

In Libya things are a bit easier as it is now much more stable. Parties I can partially support include the NDP, the NPDW, the Libu Party and the Democratic Party.

My understanding is that you believe we should have just allowed Gadaffi and Assad to keep ruling their countries as you do not believe they were slaughtering their citizens. You reject the confirmed reports of Assadian chemical weapons attacks on civilians. You believe everyone opposed to Assad today is an Islamist, a Zionist, or both, even charities. Is that fair?

(Incidentally I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea you’ve ever got the better of me on foreign policy - almost every discussion we have sees you get the basics wrong, as you already have here. Only time I can remember you ever actually correcting me is in the size of the crowd at the People’s Vote March)

Upon reflection that clearly wasn’t fair and was a very slanted way of stating your position. So if I may try again:

You think that the intervention in Libya primarily served the interest of terrorists rather than the interests of the West and certainly ordinary Libyans. You think Gadaffi might not have been perfect, but he was good enough and regime change could not be justified.

You probably view Assad slightly worse than Gadaffi but still don’t think regime change was necessary. You view all the opposition to Assad as terrorists, except perhaps the Kurds but even then you don’t care for them and think Western support for them is largely or entirely phoney.

You don’t believe that Assad was behind documented chemical attacks which he has been blamed for. You either blame the opposition or don’t think those attacks actually happened, depending on the attack.

You believe that the White Helmets are actually al-Nusra. OK, I must admit that I can’t actual steelman that. I can quite easily find reliable articles saying that this is deliberate Russian propaganda because they don’t like that the White Helmets have proven a lot of Assad’s war crimes. Despite my best attempts I can’t actually find anything linking them to any AQ affiliates. It’s just plain wrong.

Yeah, why didn't the White Helmet leader allowed into the US to collect his Oscar? Why do the White helmets only operate in Al Qaeda held areas? Why did Chritisians celebrate Christmas after Allepo was cleansed of Al Qaeda by the Syrian army? Why doesn't the Syrian army launch chemical attacks where there isn't any Al Qaeda? Why have there been numerous leaks from the OPCW about the alleged 2018 attack in Douma? Why were US officials there bullying staff into putting the blame on Assad? Why was part of the report left out that said the canister was most likely placed on the bed? Where are the bodies of the children from the video by Al Qaeda? Why did the alleged victims say there had been no such attack? Why did no one in the area questioned by numerous news channels say they knew of no such attack? Why did a doctor tell Robert Fisk at a medical centre that there wasnt a gas attack and that a child was bought in after bombings because of the dust and white helmets came in screaming "gas attack" and pouring water over him?

I could go on all day. You will literally believe anything the media tells you. You have no clue about history and the lies building up to every war.

How did changing the richest country in Africa into a hell hole run by Al Qaeda and with open air slave markets help normal Libyans? Are you that much of an imperialist racist that you think that is what brown people deserve?

It’s silly to pretend that anyone thinks that slavery is a good thing.

The Libyan economy is almost entirely based around oil. The growth and contraction of the Libyan economy correlates almost perfectly with 1) changes in global price of oil and 2) economic sanctions against Libyan oil. Over a third of the country lives in poverty while the ruling class lives in oil-fed opulence.

Libya isn’t run by Al Qaeda.

The White Helmets don’t only operate in AQ held areas. They operate in Kurdistan too (see https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/582 ... 55811f145a) and have operated in other rebel controlled areas. They don’t operate in Assadist areas because 1) they are dedicated to helping civilians hurt by Assad and 2) Assad persecuted them.

Kareem Abeed isn’t a member of the White Helmets, let alone the leader (that was James Le Mesurier) but was denied entry to the US because the US is led by a racist idiot who wants to deny entry to all Syrians.

Why did Christians celebrate Christmas after AQ we’re gone - erm, pretty obvious and also irrelevant. Again, I am not a supporter of AQ!

Assad has attacked areas held by moderate rebels, the Kurds, and his own forces as well as those held by AQ. It’s simply not true that only areas held by AQ are attacked.

The various Douma questions you post at the end - there are many witnesses to the attack who have spoken to media organisations. The Russian-bought “witnesses” who were taken to The Hague cannot he trusted for obvious reasons. The bodies were buried because that’s what people do with bodies. The evidence for the attack is plentiful; questions about the delivery system for the attack are interesting but don’t disprove that the attack happened.

Do you seriously think the Western world is pro-Al Qaeda?

We obviously think slavery and Al Qaeda is better than Gadaffi. You certainly do too as you called it a success. People had it a million times better before we destroyed the country, supporting Al Qaeda to remove the leader.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_ ... ting_Group

We gave the country to Al Qaeda. Now We are trying to stop the most popular people from becoming leader.

Lots of Kurds joined ISIS. Ok they also operate a little in the Kurdish terrorist zones too.

Lol, no it's cause they are a propaganda construct created by us to remove the leader.

https://youtu.be/3vNwe7yKbwo

Syria already has a civil defense service. Normal Syrians have never heard of the 'white helmets' they just know them as Al Nusra. Nice try, but Raed Saleh wasn't allowed to collect his award because he's a "security threat". I guess that's the situation you get in when you give Al Qaeda an Oscar.

Our government is a supporter of Al Qaeda though and we funded and armed them to remove Assad, but luckily the Syrian army and Co destroyed our terrorists and Syria is nearly free again. The group we were supporting in Douma Jaish Al Islam/the army of Islam (clue is in the name again) were locking people in cages and mass murdering civilians.

There are no f**king 'moderate rebels', they are all Jihadists. They are all Al Qaeda offshoots or Kurdish terrorists. Not rainbow loving flower giving moderates. Syrians want them the hell out of their country as many of them aren't Syrians. And Kurds won't get their ethno state which they have tried to obtain via mass murder.

Yeah who are these witnesses? There's zero evidence of a chemical attack in Douma and any evidence points to it being staged. The whistleblowers at the OPCW have put that beyond doubt. There was no attack. So Russia took victims to the Hague against their Will? The same 'victims' of the alleged attacks? proof? Wouldn't that be a good place for the 'victims' to expose Russia and Assad? Lol. What were names of the dead victims and where are they buried? Our 'moderate' rebels can let us know. Why did the video show victims showing signs of a sarin attack and many of the usual suspects saying it was a sarin attack or nerve agent when both proved false? Why was the piece in the OPCW report stating there was just miniscule traces of chlorine consistent with household bleach around removed from the final report?

I don't think it, we support Al Qaeda.

Well we’re clearly operating in entirely different realities. Every source I can find says that Saleh was allowed to enter the Us and was granted a visa, but chose to remain in Syria as he had work to do saving lives.

There is a different Raed Saleh who has been denied entry to the UK in the past, but he is an antisemite- I mean, anti-Zionist.

I know you don’t think all brown people are the same, or all terrorists. Could you name one you think is a good person and not a terrorist?

Yeah, you're reading from the same kind of sources that said Saddam had WMD's and mobile weapons labs. That Gadaffi was handing out viagra to his troops. Sources that told us for over 2 years that Russia got Trump elected. That's why you know nothing.

This is interesting

https://bsnews.info/white-helmets-the-g ... -in-syria/

If you actually watch the video I shared you will see he wasn't allowed into the US because he was deemed a security threat. And that's because he is a terrorist.

That's funny given that your beloved racist Israel calls anyone they murder a terrorist, even innocent children.

Here's another piece exposing the 'white helmets'

https://bsnews.info/white-helmets-the-g ... -in-syria/

Odd how the one place they are is in the hornets nest of Al Qaeda and ISIS in Idlib. Couldn't be more obvious. They don't seem to be bothered when the US or Israel drops bombs in Syria. How gullible can you get? They have been caught out taking atrocities with dummies. They are terrorists and should lined up and shot and our government should be held accountable for sending millions to Al Qaeda's rescue team while they cut money to our fire service.