Page 1 of 5 [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,410
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

28 Jan 2020, 6:44 pm

I don't often have philosophical ponders to share, but I think this could be autism related.

I really struggled to think of a good title. Let me explain.

Imagine a person who has had good manners drummed into them. They know that if they see someone with a baby buggy struggling to open a door that they should hold it open for them. They see a person walking with a zimmer frame and they help them to carry their bags.

They do it because they know it is the right thing to do, but they don't feel anything. They don't really care if the person was struggling to physically open the door or carry their bags. But they were taught that such things are polite.

Sometimes they forget to do things for others. And they are annoyed that they forgot or didn't notice. The annoyance comes from knowing they didnt do what they were meant to, a sense of duty or they realise that the other person has become upset with them and they know that's a bad place to be.

They don't feel sorry, but they know that they dropped the ball and will try better. They hope they will remember next time. But they don't feel anything much about the situation.

What is more good? Being motivated by love or by compassion or simply knowing what is helpful and what good manners are and doing things out of duty?



blackicmenace
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,160
Location: Sagittarius A

28 Jan 2020, 7:12 pm

Compassion is motivated by love.


_________________
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.” ― Bertrand Russell


TheRobotLives
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,356
Location: Quiet, Dark, Comfy Spot

29 Jan 2020, 2:49 am

From an autistic perspective …I do good because ...

1. Past abuses to me resonate with me. I don't wish them on others.

2. (Wrong Planet behavior) has been drilled out of me by others somewhat.

Like, people expect you to say, "Hi" when you first meet them for the first time in a day. Likely, my autism made it more likely others pushed their positive behaviors on me.

So, I am trained to do good.

3, My personality type is INFJ: The Advocate. Possibly, my brain personality is one of being very sensitive to what others feel, so likely, I want get the reciprocation of "doing good".


_________________
Then a hero comes along, with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive.

Be the hero of your life.


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,168
Location: Brisbane, Australia

29 Jan 2020, 4:17 am

What one defines as good can be different from person to person. What I broadly define it as is in terms of tabletop alignment, good is putting the good of others when you could just be selfish. A good aligned person looks sees how they may help someone else, and either rejects or not even thinks how they could benefit, they are motivated by how they can help others.

But whether they are aligned good does put some question in whether they are contextually good. Someone who cares about others over themselves can do some bad things, like a bible thumper could tell atheists they are going to hell, one might be confused that conversion therapy is something helpful, one might even be so confused that they think killing people is helping their souls. By the same vein, someone who does charitable things that help others may not actually be a good person, they could be obsessed with making themselves look really kind and helpful as to gain social clout, while actually not caring if it really helps others.

Putting aside ulterior motives, I think the only way you can know someone is good is if they genuinely care about whether someone helps others, and in context I would say they try hard enough question if what they are doing is actually right. Not to sound anti-religion, but I think the important part of that is fighting against what might feel familiar and comforting, as beliefs can blind you from what actual good you are doing. Fighting against your own ignorance and not trusting in ancient texts.

In the scheme of things, I bet I don't live up to other people's ideas of being good, like I don't go around saying hi to people. My reason being my social anxiety makes me terrified of being a nuisance to others, so often avoiding people is my way of trying to not inconvenience others. I otherwise may hold doors open for others, hate lying or any perception of taking advantage of something I don't deserve. When I play a video game, I can't stand the idea that I do a bad and terrible thing to someone else, even though I know that they are fictional characters, I feel too bad when I could have solved things in a peaceful way, that does not cause further harm.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,439
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

29 Jan 2020, 6:12 am

In certain order;
-Certain Pathologies/Guilt/Fear
-Sums Numbers game only 'positive' or optimistic disposition
-Cooperation over competition
-Naivety/Conditioning
-Duty/Responsibility/Civility/Ethics/'Morality'
-'Empathy' supposedly/Sympathy/Understanding/Resonance
-This:

blackicmenace wrote:
Compassion is motivated by love.


-Anywhere beyond that is.. There's no 'motive' in the beyond. Not even the idea of 'good'. There just isn't, only for what it is.



As for myself? :lol: I'm currently more inclined to the paradigms of service-to-self over service-to-others.
There are countless motivations of humans to motivate to do 'good'. Or rather, incline themselves into prosocial behaviors.

As to why any humans intend good? First, depends what their concept of good is.
And then there's the beyond, where the one see past through the filters of the ego's conditioned mind... Beyond is simply is, closest thing to have come as 'natural' yet is exceedingly rare to embody.


_________________
Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 9:15 am

hurtloam wrote:
What motivates a good person?
Same thing that motivates anyone else -- anticipated reward.  It could be love and admiration from adoring fans, an actual monetary reward, or a place in a heavenly afterlife.  It may also be the cliche of "a good feeling from a job well done" or the opportunity to engage in a little "humblebrag"...

Image


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Teach51
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,765
Location: Where angels do not fear to tread.

29 Jan 2020, 9:44 am

That's a very cynical approach. I am just programmed that way, I don't expect reward, admiration or approval from mortals or the God I believe in. Life is so much better when we don't think of ourselves all the time.


_________________
My best will just have to be good enough.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 9:56 am

Teach51 wrote:
That's a very cynical approach. I am just programmed that way, I don't expect reward, admiration or approval from mortals or the God I believe in. Life is so much better when we don't think of ourselves all the time.
Right ... not even when you reward yourself with a good feeling from having done something good?

I've had this debate before, mostly with Christians and SJWs. Every one of them had to admit that doing good things gave them good feelings; that they felt 'empowered' and 'uplifted' every time they performed some anonymous good deed. So, even if no one gives you a reward for being a do-gooder, you will still reward yourself with good feelings, and that is what keeps do-gooders doing good things.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,193
Location: Poland

29 Jan 2020, 10:00 am

Ability to think of myself as a good person - or the satisfaction of "I did the right thing" - is a reward by itself.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
***** ***


Last edited by magz on 29 Jan 2020, 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 10:01 am

magz wrote:
Ability to think of myself as a good person is a reward by itself.
Self-reward.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,193
Location: Poland

29 Jan 2020, 10:03 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Ability to think of myself as a good person is a reward by itself.
Self-reward.

Why not? Satisfaction is quite a reward.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
***** ***


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 10:07 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Ability to think of myself as a good person is a reward by itself.
Self-reward.
Why not? Satisfaction is quite a reward.
No judgement. It's a simple fact that people do good things for some kind of reward, even if that reward is self-generated.

Relieving anxiety from a pre-programmed need to "do the right thing" is another form of self-reward -- you don't so much as gain a reward as you relieve yourself of a negative feeling for not doing good. I think this negative feeling may be called 'guilt'.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Amity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,714
Location: Meandering

29 Jan 2020, 10:13 am

You can still do good deeds even if you dont have altruistic motives :)



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,193
Location: Poland

29 Jan 2020, 10:15 am

I think humans have evolved ethical drive in individuals for the gain of living in more cooperative societes.
Actual ethical judgements are likely influenced by cultures but the drive seems universal.
Following natural drives is rewarding.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
***** ***


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 10:19 am

Amity wrote:
You can still do good deeds even if you dont have altruistic motives :)
Absolutely! Ye olde "What's in it for me?" is always a good motivator.  Heck, even blood donors are rewarded with a stale cookie and two ounces of watered-down Kool-Aid.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,589
Location: Stendec

29 Jan 2020, 10:25 am

magz wrote:
I think humans have evolved ethical drive in individuals for the gain of living in more cooperative societes...
Perhaps 'evolved' is not the operative word, since human children must be taught both ethical behavior and delayed gratification.

While it is fair to note that while wolves have evolved as animals that hunt cooperatively in packs, it is also fair to note that almost all of the great cats evolved as solitary hunters.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.