Christianity & the voice of God.

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Hi all,

I am hoping you can help. My brother has high functioning ASD - he's in his 40s now. We grew up in an atheist household - but he has since found Christianity after a bout of severe depression and a kind of 'break' in his late 20s. He reads and follows the bible closely - but doesn't attend a church or have any kind of Christian community.

He's very logical (he's a chemical engineer) and has scrutinised every argument for/against the existence of God.

He also hears the voice of God (not out loud - just in his head).

To an atheist who has no understanding of Christianity / spirituality it sounds absolutely terrifying and I am finding it hard to understand. There is also a part of me that is concerned that 'hearing God's voice' is somehow beyond ASD and Christianity and points to something else.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Has anyone found God later in life? Have you heard the voice of God? Do you take the scripture as a literal text?

I am looking for insight into my brother who I love very much - if there is anyone who can relate I would love to hear your story.

Thank you so much

Sarah

Last edited by WXYZ on 13 Feb 2020, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I feel like it depends upon how he is functioning in other areas. Has religion screwed with his functioning in other areas? Have the "voices?"

There are many "sane" people in history who have "heard the voice of God."

I haven't. I'm an atheist.

But if "finding God" or whatever is conducive to his happiness, and doesn't harm other people, then I'm all for it.

I might be able to relate to this a little bit differently - ie. as someone whose worked within the frame of Hermetic practice and sometimes vacillated between the Israel Regardie approach of psychologizing most of it at some times and entertaining the possibility that it's autonomous interactions at others.

The main point - to the degree that you can have imaginary friends as a child you can also do things that are more complex, and usually as an adult those things are more low-profile and practical. I think through active play with our imaginative faculties we go a fair distance in learning how to use our sort of virtual inner-plurality as a means to keep ourselves balanced, ie. like having certain parts of ourselves that aren't public-facing deal with house-keeping tasks (like keeping the world in order when life gets truly stressful and you're on the edge of falling apart - it's a good thing to have a significant part of you that can stand apart from that carnage and counterbalance the situation).

I don't think it's all that abnormal to experience opinions that you can perceive as secondary and have the figure of speech 'voice of' fill in the blank seem like it fits the situation. When I think of what a large part of prayer was for me, during my upbringing as a Catholic, it seems like the bulk of it was to create a certain kind of living structure of ideas within me to guide me along a certain path, since then I've really tried to tune that more accurately and having read the bible cover to cover quite a few times it seemed much more like a cobbled-together collection of regional beliefs across many centuries rather than the sort of 2001 Space Odyssey monolith getting dropped to earth in the way Christianity often seems to want to sell it.

I'd echo kraftiekortie that his level of functioning is probably the most important thing to look at. Normally something like schizophrenia hits people in their late teens or early 20's and that's biological in nature, not something people have a say in and it doesn't sound like religious conversion or lack of it have much of an effect. If he's sort of cultivating a secondary circuit within himself and considers that being the voice of God as a useful thing - great, I think one of the reasons I'd never be able to do that myself is that... going to the ultimate yields a bit too much authority for that voice.

Pretty much what Krafty said.

Its disconcerting for a family member to suddenly adopt a radically different creed than before, and to do so in an extreme way like that. If I were in your shoes I might be in quandary over whether its just me being intolerant of the person's new beliefs (which aren't all that unusual), or whether its indictive of something going on with the person. Like them using religion in an addictive way like a drug to self medicate for the depression you say he has a history of. But then...maybe that would be a good thing. Religion might be better than booze or drugs for that purpose even if that is what is going on with him.

It's socially acceptable in modern America to express the belief that you talk to God, but its not quite as acceptable as it was centuries ago to say that god talks to you. But its still not unheard of for the religious to say things like "god spoke to me this morning". So you have to go by what Krafty said, and go by whether this belief interferes with his life in some way, or not.

Thank you all so much for replying. I am 100% supportive of him finding his faith and have told him so. It's just the extremity of it that I'm trying to understand. For example, largely cutting his family off because we aren't Christian (he responds to my messages but won't initiate anything). Being very angry with my parents for not bringing him up as a Christian, and my dad for not being a real man and a leader of the household. And that he hears God's voice personally.

He was told by God, for example, that a women that he had chatted to briefly for work (nothing more than that) was destined to be his wife. He's never seen her again, but is convinced because God told him that they were meant to be together that they will be and he must just wait. They live in different towns and have only spoken once and she is apparently married. I would love for it to be true - but it's been 3 years since that one-off conversation so it seems if I am honest a bit delusional.

I'm just trying to understand if these kinds of views (the extremity of them) are common in Christianity generally. Or is heightened because of his ASD as it's become 'a special interest'.

Thanks so much again

Hmmm...

Doesn't sound either typically Christian, nor typically aspie. That thing about that woman sounds just a tad...well...delusional.

Also sounds like he is in his own one-man cult if he is cutting off family.

Yes - that's the concern. If he was with a church or community that would be great - I've tried to encourage him.

But it feels like he's created a religion for one based on his personal interpretation of the bible.

That's why I wondered also if there was something else going along with his ASD. Schizotypal perhaps? I know labels aren't great. But just trying to understand and find ways to reach him.

Good-morning Sarah,

This is an interesting story, and I can certainly say that it would seem odd to me as well if I were in your shoes. I know a number of Christians who "hear the voice of God" aloud: in some I would say that God might indeed be speaking to them; most of the time, it seems to be a result of a vivid imagination acting on a good wholesome thought, perhaps embellished to be a little more "audible." You know, audio remastering is ruining everything these days.

Now in your brother's case I can't see any redeeming qualities (pardon me) to the one-man show he's made from reading the Bible. There is so much more to Christianity than to the Bible. For example, the last parts of the New Testament talk quite a bit about a concept of "the Church," which is definitely not a bunch of people sitting round reading Bibles.

Can't say if he's schizotypical or not; I don't know him. But I can say that he is bad at theology. Considering you are atheists and he probably likes to talk, you probably heard the one that if there is a God, then we are obliged to worship him. Now suppose that this God founded a church; stands to logic we'd be obliged to membership. I'm quite convinced of this, and of the primacy of the Catholic church, so I'm Catholic. It's logical. But one thing I did learn from that was that Catholics do not print editions of the Bible without explanatory notes. They simply must be supplemented with some references & facts at the bottom of the page--not that we think the readers are stupid, no no; it's that the book is over 1900 years old in its newest parts and some parts go back about 3000-4000 years during which time language & idioms have changed considerably...

Not to mention the Bible itself is full of strange things. For example, there is the Law of Moses. Of course it has been fulfilled by the coming of Christ but it doesn't need to be put into practice. (St. Paul made sure, for example, to convince St. Peter to stop ordering that all new Christians be circumcised...at least the men anyway. It strengthened Christian identity as distinct from Judaism and men everywhere were much happier.)

So no, I don't think it's wise or safe what he is doing; I admire his newfound enthusiasm for something good, but he is doing it the most dangerous way possible. Christianity is potent stuff and has often been used for evil. I'm always glad to see people showing an interest--but they need to learn what it really looks like.

Has he read C.S. Lewis' nonfiction works?

I know somebody like that. Who has adopted religion to the detriment of other things.

You're right, his obsession with religion is harmful. It has created a pathological world view in him.

Thank you both for the reply!

And yes - he's a big fan of CS Lewis and his re-conversion to Christianity!

As a believer, maybe I can shed some light on this.

First, you may want to be aware that growing up in an atheist household, much of what you believe to be true is colored by certain assumptions you may never have challenged. Have you ever once considered, for example, that perhaps he really is hearing the voice of God? Now, he may or may not. I can't make the same assumptions, either. But the key difference is that I'm open to the reality that God speaks to us. There's no question as to whether God speaks; He does. Given some of the things you're brother has said, the real question is whether this really is God speaking to HIM.

I do take the Bible literally. My understanding of the Bible is that it is a self-interpreting work, however. What I mean by that is if a passage is described as a psalm, it is LITERALLY a psalm. It is both a sacred work (inspired by God) AND an artistic work. And so as an artistic depiction of something theological, you wouldn't want to assess the truth of the psalm as anything more than such an expression. The description of the earth as immovable and flat, covered by a dome, is actually true from the perspective of an earthbound observer. Such a description isn't intended to be a statement of absolute fact, but is rather painting a picture. The book of Proverbs is full of riddles and paradoxes intended to make the reader think about deeper truths within. Prophecies often follow a pattern of parallelism and dual fulfillment. Visions of wheels that can move anywhere (omnipresent) and covered with eyes (omniscient) indicate the coming message is from God who possesses those very attributes. You can't begin to understand the Bible as being literally true without first understanding the nature of its contents.

I'm pointing out how I read the Bible to answer the first question: Is your brother really hearing from God? The only way to know that is to understand what kinds of things it is God chooses to say to us. For the Christian, the ONLY important purpose of the Bible is to point towards Jesus as our salvation. Within that, you learn where we came from and you get an idea of how God meant for us to live considering the broken world we live in.

What you said about your brother believing he's destined to be with this married woman...that disturbs me as a Christian. The Biblical pattern for marriage is one man, one woman. Believers are instructed not to covet someone else's spouse or to commit adultery. Someone who is divorced is breaking a sacred promise. So to marry that person is to cause that person and yourself to commit adultery. I'm aware divorced Christians get remarried all the time, but first off, it's unbiblical, and second, it's just flat a bad idea. Divorce is relationship suicide. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. People who file for divorce are running away from the problems that lead to divorce in the first place, never considering that the problem is entirely their own and not with their spouse, and those problems will follow you around forever unless you deal with them head on. Your brother's problem is if he believes God is telling him to marry this woman because "destiny," then God is contradicting Himself as set forth in scripture. Christians already know that God will not act contrary to His own nature and character. Therefore the idea that God is telling him this is false.

That does not mean your brother doesn't hear the voice of God, and how believers perceive that voice is very personal. Perhaps it comes in thunder and lightning, or in the wind, or waves crashing on the seashore, or in a small whisper. Your brother may have worked some things out and gets a lot of things right. But if you take a literal interpretation of the Bible as I do and apply it to finding love, your brother is way off track.

As to possibly being a mental illness...well, I doubt that. Sure, there are delusional people everywhere. Those of us who have studied the Bible know that sin has a corrupting influence on the mind and that human reasoning on its own cannot be trusted. But it would be illogical to assume everything a madman says is false. Even a madman can get something right by accident, or perhaps there are limits to one's madness. For me, the question is whether I'm really hearing the voice of God or if it's all imagined. I can admit that when I was younger, much of that was wishful thinking. But not all of it. And it becomes a matter of knowing the difference.

I'd be concerned your brother isn't aware of the difference, at least not yet. I would strongly encourage him to become a member of a church, get into a Bible study, work with a small group, and perhaps get counseling from a pastor. I'm not particularly fond of Catholicism, personally, or mainstream Protestantism. I'm a Southern Baptist myself. A lot of us tend to take what we hear from the pulpit at face value, but we are all encouraged to dig into the Bible and study on our own and make up our own minds. I've come to some conclusions I believe many religious leaders would strongly disagree with, but my reasoning is that many of these pastors are following in the footsteps of those within a very negative and destructive tradition of preaching. Not all evangelicals do this. Guilt and shame for the believer ends at the foot of the cross, and victory begins at the empty tomb. Beware of preachers who seem intent on putting you right back in hell. If all you hear about is how evil money is and yet insist on you giving more, time to find a different church. But going at theology alone is dangerous. If you want to become a Christian, you need to be close to someone who has been a believer for some time to help you get your footing. I may not like Catholicism, but I have to give them props for how difficult they make it to convert and how supportive they are of people who want to convert while they are in that process.

The best thing you can do for your brother is get him into a decent church where he'll be properly taught and cared for in his spiritual journey. It's easy to get carried away and thrown off-track when you try to go it alone.

Hi AngelRho

Thank you so much for the insight. I have, of course, considered he might be hearing the voice of God. I am certainly open to that possibility!

I suppose I am more trying to understand the degree of extremism in his thinking and whether this is related to his being Aspergers. Or if his is really just an everyday way of life for most Christian's that I just don't understand because I haven't had access to it through my world view.

Thank you again for your considered and articulate reply.

I have heard the voice of God only once, it wasn't expected. I was holding an internal battle with myself during one of the most critical moments of my life, the voice broke through very calmly.

I personally have not held an ongoing dialog with God, that's not to say it doesn't exist. David talked to God continually, I can't remember if God talked back to him continually, or not. Many people in Biblical times talked with God, so I could never say to anyone, 'no, it's not true that God talks with you.'

With regard to the woman, is your brother likely to meet other women? If he isn't, perhaps this woman is his way of having a relationship without really having one. That way he can feel quasi normal, without having to put himself out there.

It's easier to go to extremes with ASD, certainly, and I'm not ruling that out, either.

When you meet one Christian, you've only met ONE Christian. I'm convinced that many people who claim to be Christians really aren't. Of those who really are, there exists a spectrum of belief that may be part ill-informed, part wishful-thinking, and part lack of maturity. More of us are concerned with the eternal consequences of life choices on earth than we are intellectual pursuit. And that's because purely human attempts at reason become irrelevant in Heaven when we'll understand everything anyway.

So as to what is everyday life for us, there are those who believe God only speaks in the "still small voice," and those who say God doesn't speak at all. There are different views on dispensationalism that argue whether God still speaks as He did in ancient times or whether that time has passed. Obviously God isn't appearing in a pillar of cloud and fire right this very moment, causing sinkholes to open up beneath sinners, or making people's faces glow, at least not that I'm aware of. But I disagree with the idea that God can't or won't reveal Himself in similar kinds of ways now. What we know God has done when it came to those kinds of things has followed a progression that paralleled the needs of the people. If God doesn't show up the way we want Him to, it's more likely a problem with us and not God. Different Christian denominations have sought to answer for this in different ways, and not many of them are very satisfying IMO. I'm open to hearing from God however He chooses to speak. I don't expect God to meet me on my terms.

I've told this story on WP several times. When I was young, I was in a single-car accident that flattened the car like a pancake. I was a passenger in the front seat. I remember the world seemed to turn upside down (it was actually the car that flipped), time slowed to a crawl, and I had time to sort through what was happening. I remember thinking I was about to die. I also remember that everything that was happening did so exactly the way it did in a dream I'd had before. At the moment I'd accepted my own imminent death, I heard a voice like it was in the back of my head say, "you're not going to die. Open the door and step out of the car." I tried to open the door and it wouldn't budge. I kept trying until the door came open and I stepped out. That's when time caught up with me and I ended up face-first in a ditch with a mouthful of dirt. Aside from some bruised muscles I barely had a scratch. I don't know if I'd attribute that to THE voice of God. Maybe a guardian angel, which I think is most likely the case. But what I do know is the thought that entered my head was not mine. It doesn't make sense to leave a fast-moving vehicle and risk getting crushed if it were to land on me--better to take my chances inside the car. Yet I most certainly would have died had I stayed. There's no ordinary explanation for how I survived and no reason to believe the voice I heard wasn't SOMETHING.

I don't think the majority of people have that kind of dramatic experience, and there are always attempts at explaining it away. I've even heard preachers say God doesn't do that kind of thing. Maybe the so-called "man of God" hasn't experienced God in one form or another, but that doesn't mean God doesn't still show up. I also think we have to be at least open to the experience and live life expecting things to happen. If you're looking for it, you will eventually find it. It's just a matter of recognizing it when you see it.