[ POLL ] An Argument Against Universal Basic Income.

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America needs tax cuts for the rich and corporate welfare and tax breaks for the rich for many reasons.Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person.I am not a lackey of the one percent because I am a one percenter.It should not be up to the gov to give any money my money included to the poor.I pay way too much in taxes.I had to write a big check and it was painful

working class people buy lots of stuff. we are in the majority despite the systematic ignorance of us by everybody else. ergo, working class people create jobs with their demand. supply-side economics is as much of a bad joke as "trickle down." in the 20s' will rogers proposed a wall street transaction tax, that even if it were fractional, would raise all the money we'd need to take care of our own citizens in a way similar to the morally enlightened countries of northern europe, without the heavy income taxation and other user taxes. wall street has systematically resisted this tax with all their might. morally bankrupt parasites they are IMHO. and for what we spend on a fractured social welfare non-system, we could indeed just pay out the money directly to the end users [pofolk]. i would not make it [universal income] for everybody that is not working class and struggling [esp. not for the rich].

I completely agree. Reaganomics did NOT work out well. President Ronald Reagan cut taxes & tried to pay for it by slashing government programs that helped the poor & families & kids, & he also majorly reduced regulation over corporations & big businesses. About the only government programs that received funding increases were related to defense & very ironically programs that helped the elderly but the programs for the elderly were unrelated to their income & need. Reagan basically threw the poor, the disabled, & children under the bus so he could help out seniors who already had a bit of money in addition to expanding the military & deregulating mega corporations & Reagan tripled the US deficit in the process.


I am assuming that you only read the Old Testament & never read the New & you do not believe in or support Jesus. Jesus himself preached helping the poor & he healed the disabled & sick. He also said something like "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God". BTW bragging about being rich on a support site for a disability that causes more than a few of us to be poor & struggle with various aspects life, is NOT going to be perceived well on this forum .

The true religion of America is not Christianity, it's Capitalism. Americans can claim to worship Jesus all they want but what they really worship is money.

Last edited by King0fSpades on 28 Aug 2021, 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know it's not my business, but I still feel like pointing out that when being rich is mentioned in a topic where it's relevant, it's not exactly bragging. It's taking a part in the conversation properly by bringing out facts. Besides, this is PPR; people are allowed to discuss more sensitive stuff here, including financial politics.

And before someone thinks I'm only saying this 'cause I'm also rich: no, I'm not. I'm not rich. I'm a min wage part timer who hasn't been able to get a full time job in years. Not gonna reveal numbers, but I'm sure everyone can do the math even without those that I'm by no means rich.

I am not Jewish.I am Christian and I believe in everyword of the Old and New testament. and everyword that Jesus said.Jesus is my Lord and savior of my life and soul.Christ and the early church helped the poor through private means.I agree that it is easier for a camel to go through a needle than for someone who is rich to get to Heaven but he also said in that Bible pasage something like "With God all things are possible" so i believe a billionaire could make it to Heaven if he was truely a follower of Jesus.I do give to the poor through non-monetariy ways and also my taxes and shopping.I also help provide for the poor by helping them have jobs.My church says you should only give money to them if you are a cheerful giver and not under coercian and i think that i still need to get to the point of being a cheerful giver.I think being rich is like drinking.Most people cant handle it but I can handle it so I am not concerned for my soul plus my elders and preachers said its okay for me to be rich.Jesus gave me my money but I am nowhere close to being a billionaire or anything like that.

The bible is so vague that anybody can interpret it however they want. And it has been used by followers of Christ to justify some truly despicable things for centuries.

But try convincing them of that fact.

what part of "you shall have no other gods before me" do people not get? man, so many are acting like some kind of sinners, aren't they? how can a christian worship mammon? one can not worship both, god won't have it.

As a Polytheist myself I take offense of that!

Lol just kidding auntblabby.

But you do have a point about people in this country becoming insatiable greedy to the point that they lose their sense of humanity and are twisting their own religious scripture to claim that it is what 'God' wants of his followers. Just like the white slaveowners who back in the day used the bible to justify slavery and racism.


Hmm... slavery. Profiting off the forced labor of other human beings. I guess that boils down to the fact that the true religion of America is and always has been pure greed?

^^^De Tocqueville would prolly agree with that.

How have I not come across this discussion before? No, I mostly disagree with the assessment that universal basic income will automatically make people lazy and unwilling to work, because we have real-world data from countries where such a system has been implemented, and to my understanding, the vast majority of people in those places do in fact work.

Having universal basic income doesn't mean that all those people are rich, for one. If they want to live a lifestyle above the absolute basic to live and function, having a secondary source of income is highly recommended. More importantly though, the vast majority of people aren't lazy. In fact, the word "lazy" is one I wish would be struck from the lexicon, because that term is a catch-all that very often ends up referring to people who are just simply not engaged by whatever it is that is expected of them, but who will expend great effort in pursuing the things they're passionate about.

From an employer standpoint, in a world where people don't have to work a job just to make ends meet, people who apply for positions more than likely want those jobs. The workforce is therefore far more likely to be engaged by what they do, which could very well have a positive impact on overall job performance.

Of course, there are reasons why I can't disagree 100% with the premise of the article. One is that none of this has been tested on Americans, and based on observation, many Americans appear to be quite entitled and unwilling to expend more effort into things than they need to. It's possible that a higher percentage of Americans would take full advantage of a system where work is completely optional, hence the need to run some studies.

Another reason is that there will likely be a huge decrease in people willing to settle for suboptimal positions. There are jobs that a good portion of people may not be wanting to work by virtue of them not being very...fun. Money will still be an incentive, but not nearly to the same extent as it won't be necessary for keeping people off the street. Of course, that would make it less of a concern if technology were to start filling more and more such positions. We're not quite at the point where that can be a catch-all solution across the board though.

Still, I am in support of universal basic income overall. It seems to work well for the people who live under such a system, and I can't envision a world where no one needs to worry about whether they can afford shelter, food, etc. and think of it as anything but a blessing.

Which is interesting, because if you actually read the bible neither Jesus nor Paul would condone any of that. You can take quotes out of context to justify almost anything, but if these groups actually understood the message of the Gospels, they wouldn't have done half of what they did in God's name. Ironically too, the sordid history of Christianity is a reason why many people are turned off of the idea of coming to Christ, which goes against the very mission of the church. Who the heck wants to join a group of people known for doing horrible things and are reputed to be judgmental above all else? It's why many churches to this day are having to do damage control.

Well I dont think embracing an unhinged megalomaniac like Donald Trump as God's 'chosen one' is helping to improve the reputation of Christianity. They are the ones driving people away from Christ and they have brought it on themselves.

the fake xtians are under the collective delusion that they can get while the getting is good and have an automatic express pass to paradise above while the rest of us "heathens" BBQ in perdition. little do they suspect.....

I don't understand enough about the economy to say whether UBI would work out on a large scale.

However, as a poor retail employee, it certainly sounds nice.

Paradoxically, my job is sometimes regarded as "not a real job! Just something students do for extra cash!" yet it's also so "essential" that I've had to keep doing it throughout a pandemic AND I need to be threatened with abject poverty to keep doing it or else society will fall apart. Maybe UBI would force companies to treat their employees a little better.

Throughout my life, I've struggled to find employment. Local hiring managers seemed repulsed by me and I still have no idea why. Before I got my current job, I went through a long period of job-searching. Eventually, I wound up living in motels, on the verge of homelessness.

During that time, I was put down by people who had outdated ideas of how easy it was to get a job. Apparently, they used to hand them out like candy. Once, I had a "telephone pre-interview" for a minimum wage retail job, to see if I was worthy of a real interview. I was judged unworthy. In another case, an interviewer yelled at me because he thought I was going to go back to college and leave him in the lurch.

So yeah. It would have been great to have a basic income until I finally found a hiring manager who missed the memo that I was some sort of monster and hired me.

Some people would still work. Not everyone would be satisfied with only the basic survival level of income and I think some people need to work at a job where they're told what to do all day. I knew some people who would complain that our hour lunch at work was "too long" and they couldn't wait to go back to work.

I relate some. I have various disabilities & two of the 3 jobs I had were retail & I was extremely lucky to get them. I was on SSI at the time & living with my parents so it's not like I woulda been homeless on the street if I was not working but if I would not of been allowed to live with my parents(like if mom woulda kicked me out like she often threatened to do since I was a teen & when I was not working as an adult but she never followed through with it), I woulda been in the homeless situation even when I was working full time because minimum wage is NOT enough to cover all living expenses. I was kinda a workaholic when I was employed & allowed to work extra because I knew how much I majorly struggled to get a job & I was wanting to better myself. I had a BAD depression at the time & majorly HATED being single & getting a romantic relationship seemed almost impossible since I lived in a hard-core conservative area where anybody needing any kinda handout deserves to die on the street because they majorly offended god by being too lazy I was working a lot because I was trying to overcome horrible stigma & judgement & I felt like I had to overcompensate to make up for my disabilities. I also cared about my jobs & I felt like I was needed even if my employers were taking major advantage of me. I kinda disliked the hour lunch break being required since I was not getting paid for that hour & just hanging out waiting around doing nothing is kinda boring. I woulda rathered if that hour woulda been optional & I would get paid if I chose to work during some of it. That way I coulda got a very tiny amount of extra money or be allowed to work a shorter shift if I wasn't allowed any overtime. I worked very hard at work but played very hard at home. It's very hard for me to be motivated to do housework & chores at home if they do not have to be done then but I did not like goofing off while I was at work. I could talk some while I was working if I was working with somebody who liked to talk but the work was always my main focus & I worked very hard by myself. I think there may be a strong OCD component in my case since I do have OCD.

I'm on Social Security Disability nowadays & have Medicare & Medicaid but I do want to go back to work but I also do not want to screw up my benefits in the process. If I were to lose those benefits I would probably have to work overtime to come out ahead because my medical expenses would be very high which is discouraging. I've been living with my girlfriend for the last 8 & a half years & she has various disabilities herself but she has some better benefits including housing assistance which is pretty nice compared to the benefits I had but she cant handle being by herself a lot. She doesn't need me to spend time with her constantly but she kinda needs to know somebody is here. She does not like being alone in an apartment or house for an extended time so me being gone for 10 hours 4 or 5 days a week due to work(if I was working an 8 hour shift, had an hour lunch break, & then transportation time there & back like when I was working at WalMart & not allowed overtime) could really mess with her emotional health. Me working a few hours a day would be a lot better & she might be happy to have me out of our apartment some but I'm not really sure how to go about finding a job like that. Having a part time job could be really good for my physical & mental health & we could really use some extra money. My desktop computer is about 12 years old & still has Windows 7 on it like when I bought it new, I decked out when I got it. Listening to music on my computer while web browsing or spending time on this forum is one of my biggest interests & I haven't bought a lot of music since I moved out of my parents so I'm def extremely far from being rich. I went into default on a couple credit cards a couple years ago & I did make an arrangement with the debt collector for the one I owe the least on & I'm paying $25 a month for 10 years & then I'd be responsible for the rest since I owe more than three thousand. I really hate owing people & screwing my credit history up. I don't sleep well at night with this on my mind. Independent living was a huge adjustment for me. I did quit paying for health insurance & paying to see docs but there's lots of other various expenses instead including meds & supplements. I kinda recently quit buying a lot of junk-food & snacks because I just can no longer afford it & I gained alot of weight. Getting a job where I only work a few hours a day & still keep my benefits could be a huge help but I'm horrible at knowing how to search for a job unless I'm familiar with the places in the area or somebody suggest places for me to apply at. Also we moved to a new area about a couple years ago & getting settled in took a long time & then we had the government shutdown cuz of Covid. I know the pandemic increased unemployment which is also very discouraging. I'm very used to having to fight to get any help & most of the so-called help is basically worthless. I need help to get any help Then again maybe I'm just making excuses because I'm an extremely lazy SOB. I heard so much negative stuff about me or others like me that I don't really know

This is why in addition to supporting a universal basic income, I STRONGLY support investing in programs that help disableds & other people find employment. There are plenty of people like me who really want to work some so they could have some extra money or just feel like a productive member of society or to better their living situation or themselves & so they would have a reason to get out of the house & be around people some. We need a real chance to prove ourselves but we also want our employers to treat us fairly & with dignity & respect. There's a saying that goes "Give a man a fish & you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish & you feed him for a lifetime"