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roronoa79
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27 May 2020, 3:33 pm

Can we finally please stop acting like police treat conservative and liberal protests equally? Conservative protesters can seize the Michigan statehouse armed with rifles and what do the police do? Nothing. Virtually nothing. These 'protesters' are explicitly intimidating lawmakers with the threat of violence. And they are allowed to leave unharmed, unimpeded.

Let us contrast: less than a month later, protests break out after the murder in Minneapolis of George Floyd, an unarmed black man (the police's favorite kind of black man) by a white police officer in plain view of numerous witnesses. These protesters are peaceful. These protesters are *not* touting military-grade weaponry. They are not there to intimidate lawmakers who are listening to scientists. But they are greeted with tear gas and rubber bullets. For what? Isolated incidents of vandalism committed by a tiny minority of the protesters is the usual official reason. The real reason is, of course, that they're criticizing the police specifically.

The police prioritize cracking down on those who accuse the police more than they prioritize so much as lifting a finger to stop armed white militiamen. For all their bluster of standing vigilant against the creeping threats of government tyranny and violence, conservatives are always the first to defend the police or the army when the killing starts.

Ask any of the untold number of unarmed black men murdered by police. Ask the civil rights activists murdered in Neshoba County in Mississippi in the 60s (an otherwise unremarkable county, which raises some uncomfortable questions as to why Reagan chose this county specifically to give a speech about the importance of "state's rights"). Ask the students of Kent State who dared to criticize the government's wars. You can't ask them because the police, the military, the *government* killed them. And conservatives had no problem with that. If they did, they would stop reflexively defending the police and the military whenever they do these things.

As civil rights journalist David Neiwert summed it up:

Quote:
If black people had behaved the same way with these guns, wearing camouflage and threatening legislators and the governor, they would have been shot dead by law enforcement.


(I'm sorry, I realize I'm very vitriolic here. I try to be less harsh and biting like this but my patience has its limits.)


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TheRobotLives
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27 May 2020, 3:49 pm

Each state has its own laws.


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roronoa79
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28 May 2020, 2:14 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Each state has its own laws.


Is water also wet? I fail to see how this is relevant and I feel somewhat insulted that it was assumed I did not know that.

Is it more legal to storm a government building with rifles to intimidate lawmakers than it is to dare to block traffic as a result of a protest against police violence? Should it be? No. The police are bothered by the former much less than the latter. The latter is an affront to their egos and their power trip where they can kill and assault non-whites without consequence. The former is just an explicit threat to democratic institutions. Please make note of which is more important to them.

Americans of all backgrounds protesting the extrajudicial killing of an unarmed man? Break out the tear gas and rubber bullets! Let the police use all the violence they can!
White conservatives armed to the teeth occupying statehouses to intimidate lawmakers? Eh, no big deal. Not to the conservative. Not to the police. Because being having to stay at home to mitigate a pandemic is a greater injustice to the conservative than non-whites being denied life and due process.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν
Those in positions of power do what their power permits, while the weak have no choice but to accept it.

- Thucydides


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28 May 2020, 2:17 pm

Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?


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28 May 2020, 2:22 pm

Anarchy is the only solution.


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Fnord
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28 May 2020, 2:29 pm

No truly anarchic society ever survives the first generation intact.


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funeralxempire
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28 May 2020, 3:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?


Can we stop pretending some people deserve to be murdered in the streets by police.



The_Walrus
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28 May 2020, 3:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?

Using an allegedly forged $20 bill is not punishable by death. Peaceful protesting is not punishable by tear gas and rubber bullets.

In a just society, the police act within the law, resorting in the first instance to words rather than force, and when force is required, only using the minimum necessary, in a safe and proportionate fashion.

Blindly defending police brutality is not standing up for justice. It is the opposite.



Tim_Tex
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28 May 2020, 4:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
No truly anarchic society ever survives the first generation intact.


Yet no gubmint = no po-po


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TheRobotLives
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28 May 2020, 4:14 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Each state has its own laws.


Is water also wet? I fail to see how this is relevant and I feel somewhat insulted that it was assumed I did not know that.

Is it more legal to storm a government building with rifles to intimidate lawmakers than it is to dare to block traffic as a result of a protest against police violence? Should it be? No. The police are bothered by the former much less than the latter. The latter is an affront to their egos and their power trip where they can kill and assault non-whites without consequence. The former is just an explicit threat to democratic institutions. Please make note of which is more important to them.

Americans of all backgrounds protesting the extrajudicial killing of an unarmed man? Break out the tear gas and rubber bullets! Let the police use all the violence they can!
White conservatives armed to the teeth occupying statehouses to intimidate lawmakers? Eh, no big deal. Not to the conservative. Not to the police. Because being having to stay at home to mitigate a pandemic is a greater injustice to the conservative than non-whites being denied life and due process.

You make the argument that it's not fair that state open carry gun laws are different.

Conservative states likely have more gun rights, because that's their philosophy.
Liberal states likely have fewer gun rights, because that's their philosophy.


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roronoa79
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28 May 2020, 4:38 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Conservative states likely have more gun rights, because that's their philosophy.
Liberal states likely have fewer gun rights, because that's their philosophy.


This does not have to do with gun rights. I am a left libertarian/anarchist/whatever you want to call me and I firmly believe in my right to own a gun. Because as events like these have shown, those on the left are at far more risk of government violence than the right. Not to mention that as a queer person I know the real risk of violence that people like me face from private citizens as well. I live in a house with three other queers in the heart of Trump country so you can bet we're going to make them think twice if they think we're easy targets for their bigoted violence.

My issue is with armed men forcibly storming a statehouse en masse without the police so much as lifting a finger.
If it had been the exact same circumstances but with an armed leftist group instead, conservatives would be apoplectic--full panic mode. I wouldn't put it past them to call for martial law if something like that happened.
You look me in the eye and tell me that leftists doing the same thing would receive the same treatment from the police (well, not really look me in the eyes since this is the internet but I digress).


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν
Those in positions of power do what their power permits, while the weak have no choice but to accept it.

- Thucydides


TheRobotLives
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28 May 2020, 5:05 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Conservative states likely have more gun rights, because that's their philosophy.
Liberal states likely have fewer gun rights, because that's their philosophy.


This does not have to do with gun rights.

The core argument for gun rights is that "government should be afraid of the people".

As you note, guns help make this happen.

Image


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28 May 2020, 5:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?
Can we stop pretending some people deserve to be murdered in the streets by police.
While only those who pose a clear and imminent threat to the lives of others may deserve to be "murdered" by police, attacking police in Los Angeles for something that happened 2000 miles away is simply wrong, and those Los Angeles protesters who got injured while trying to murder those Los Angeles police do NOT deserve any sympathy at all, whatsoever.


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kraftiekortie
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28 May 2020, 6:12 pm

The Minneapolis murder is Eric Garner all over again.

There are proper ways to deal with people resisting arrest.



funeralxempire
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28 May 2020, 6:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Can we please stop showing concern for people who break the law and suffer the consequences?
Can we stop pretending some people deserve to be murdered in the streets by police.
While only those who pose a clear and imminent threat to the lives of others may deserve to be "murdered" by police, attacking police in Los Angeles for something that happened 2000 miles away is simply wrong, and those Los Angeles protesters who got injured while trying to murder those Los Angeles police do NOT deserve any sympathy at all, whatsoever.


Is anyone actually supporting attacking police (especially in another location) on here?



sly279
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28 May 2020, 7:10 pm

So the conservatives gathered peaceful and the others burnt down buildings, cars, attacked people and looted. And you think they should be treated the same?
Didn’t see police crack down on moms demand action, or women’s march. What do they have in common with the conservative protests? Peaceful assembly with no violence. But ones left and others right.


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