Why does nazism still have followers after its defeat ?

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chris1989
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29 Aug 2020, 12:02 pm

Nazism obviously was defeated and has been almost universally disgraced since World War 2 because of the Holocaust and for the fact that all Nazism did was bring death and destruction across Europe. Sadly though, there are still racist neo-nazi hatemongers out there. I don't see why people would join a party or fringe-group that advocates violence and racism against other ethnic minorities and other groups of people and be the disciples of people who carried the deliberate murder of millions and a world war that saw millions more people die. The United States has seen racism with the KKK and I once pondered that question of why America didn't side with the Nazis when they invaded the Soviet Union when America saw segregation laws and violence against Black people, and later, a loathing of communism and so on while the Nazis segregated then physically exterminated Jews, communists, people with disabilities etc.



DeathEmperor413
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29 Aug 2020, 12:26 pm

I ask myself that same question every time I see a Confederate flag. :scratch:


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Mikah
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29 Aug 2020, 12:29 pm

Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?


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29 Aug 2020, 12:34 pm

I think the thing I'd offer - don't look for people to make discursive thought-out sense, if you do the world around you will make very little sense. The alternative is to look back at the animal basis of what we are and figure that a large swath, possibly a majority, of the population lives in most sense closer to their animal nature than a Greek philosophic or secular humanist 'anthropos' which seems to be the providence of the 'divine man' - there are people like that out there, some are neurotypical but it seems like most aren't.

For the history on that - I'm less inclined to claim that I'd know the answer. I'm guessing it has something to do with historical contingencies like our being allies with Churchill and how the various camps of Axis vs. Ally broke down.

We clearly had plenty of eugenics happening at the time, plenty of prominent people like Henry Ford were proponents of that, there were plenty of Nazi parties and rallies in America in the 1930's. My guess, I'm working close to 100 hours a week these days so I can't offer the research, is you'll find it had a lot to do with who our allies were and as well what kinds of backlash or skepticism there might have already been toward Naziism from other corners.

The question of why we jumped in on the allied side though is a really good one. The thing I'm actually wondering about, if Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor, would we have clustered them with the Axis powers? There could have been strong ties and shared activity between Japan and Germany or Italy that I don't know about but I do remember hearing an unusual story about a Nazi over in China who saved the lives of over 200,000 people during the Japanese incursion by placing Nazi flags around town to mark it as their territory - during a time when the Japanese were treating the Chinese easily as badly as the Nazis were treating the Jews, Roma, etc. (one popular example - Unit 731). That's a great case of history being as complex as the people who were in it and at that specific time was it possible that there were good people either in the Nazi party but too far abroad to know what it was at home or even trying to use its power in a fifth-column way to get things done (like saving Chinese mainlanders from being killed by the Japanese).

Someone in the US who'd take up the black-and-red swastika today - they're either larping idiots, people who are misdirecting lack of opportunity, or someone who got overinfluenced by one or several people who were one of the former mentioned. The really interesting thing about fascism - Naziism was a one-off, there were many instances of fascist regimes in the past, there will likely be plenty of fascist regimes in the future, and it will be rare for a regime of that sort to break out the huge occult metaphysical parade floats or use so much archetypal manipulation with their populace.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 29 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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29 Aug 2020, 12:37 pm

Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?


Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.


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29 Aug 2020, 12:38 pm

Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?


Communism ideology sounds good on paper. People think of Capitalists as greedy and heartless towards the plight of the poor but Communism convinces the people that if you do away with the material goods everyone takes for granted then people will be more equal and less selfish. But Communism is often prone to creating ruthless dictatorships. Don't ask me how it works...


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DeathEmperor413
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29 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?


Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.



Um that's not true at all.


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magz
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29 Aug 2020, 12:39 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?

Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.

Communists exterminated because of class and also indiscriminately.


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techstepgenr8tion
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29 Aug 2020, 12:40 pm

Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?

Might be because 'real communism' hasn't been tried yet, much like 'real sharia' hasn't (great minds think alike don't they....).


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29 Aug 2020, 12:51 pm

magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?

Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.

Communists exterminated because of class and also indiscriminately.


Communists have also cracked down on religions and exterminated or imprisoned people for their religious beliefs.


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old_comedywriter
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29 Aug 2020, 12:52 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Well, for once, Anti-Semitic violence predates Nazism by more than 2½ millennia.
Add to these the numerous "informal" instances throughout history where Jews were targeted, deported, massacred etc. by Christians, Muslims or whoever needed a convenient scapegoat...
If in doubt: Blame the Jews.

Not related to any Holocaust survivors, but I have known at least one.
My great-grandfather left Russia in 1907 after they lost a war with Japan and took out their frustrations on...guess who.
Even today, we have Screwy Louie Farrakhan who blames everything on Jews. I personally am still waiting to be able to control the world's media and money.


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Last edited by old_comedywriter on 29 Aug 2020, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

old_comedywriter
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29 Aug 2020, 12:52 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?

Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.

Communists exterminated because of class and also indiscriminately.

Communists have also cracked down on religions and exterminated or imprisoned people for their religious beliefs.

Anyone heard of Pol Pot? Stalin? Mao?


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Last edited by old_comedywriter on 29 Aug 2020, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DeathEmperor413
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29 Aug 2020, 12:56 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?

Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.

Communists exterminated because of class and also indiscriminately.

Communists have also cracked down on religions and exterminated or imprisoned people for their religious beliefs.

Anyone heard of Pol Pot?



Not sure, but I do know that the Soviet Union at one point seized church property and killed many Christians when they tried to enforce state atheism on their people.

China is currently tearing down their Buddhist Statues and temples and have been rounding up muslims and christians to be shipped off to concentration camps.


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29 Aug 2020, 12:57 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
People think of Capitalists as greedy and heartless towards the plight of the poor.

Animosity towards Capitalism is quite common nowadays. In the US, a lot of people on the left were outspokenly unimpressed with Barack Obama because they believed he is at heart a Capitalist. These people are convinced that Capitalism it the root cause of our society's ills, however unlike Communists they seldom articulate a clear plan for replacing it. The Baltimore Sun's long-time media critic David Zurawik was fond of pointing out that The Sopranos wasn't really about organized crime but about Capitalism (which when I have asked around I have found very few people eager to question him on that). Ironically, recent events in the US have made me more sympathetic to this point of view. I guess it depends on your personal definition of Capitalism. Communism is well defined because it has not only a Manifesto but Das Kapital to explains its aims in detail. Capitalism not so much.


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29 Aug 2020, 1:07 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Mikah wrote:
Why does communism? A more interesting question: Why isn't communism as shunned?


Communists never exterminated anybody because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity—which the Nazis did and the GOP wants to do.


...Except for all the times they did exactly that and more?


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