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Aspinator
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15 Sep 2020, 5:41 am

It appears to me that Communism is always stated as a valid form of government. Why do countries that have Communism always a dictatorship? Doesn't having the ruling party living elitists and wealthy lifestyles defeat the whole premise of Communism? What are your thoughts on this?



vermontsavant
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15 Sep 2020, 5:45 am

This belongs in PPR


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GGPViper
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15 Sep 2020, 6:54 am

No.

… uhh, I mean "No, Communism is not a good form of government."

… not "No, this does not belong in PPR."



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15 Sep 2020, 8:10 am

One aspect is that Communist theory falsely assumes is human vices like avarice and greed can be evolved out of the human species after only a generation or two through forced labor and deprivation; but that's not how evolution works.

A second aspect is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".  Unfortunately, those who decide what is best for everyone also seem to be the most "needy" -- it is inevitable that those in charge will take more than their fair share of the collective wealth and keep it for themselves.

A third aspect is that, due to the previously-mentioned aspects, every Communist nation eventually devolves into feudalism, with a dictator/king at the top, serfs/workers at the bottom, with soldiers/knights keeping order everywhere.

That's basically it: In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality; but in reality, there always is.


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magz
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15 Sep 2020, 8:13 am

vermontsavant wrote:
This belongs in PPR

Moved.


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Fnord
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15 Sep 2020, 8:15 am

magz wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
This belongs in PPR
Moved.
Seconded.


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magz
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15 Sep 2020, 8:26 am

My opinion is: communism does not scale up well.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" can be applied to a family or small village, where everyone knows each other personally. In such case, the community can reach a consensus about everyone's needs and abilities. Natural drive to be important and respected can prevent downplaying abilities in such case.
Also, the amount of goods to share should not exceed imagination of majority of members of this group, so consensus about sharing them can be easily reached.
That's what I think about communist economy. It's natural for a hunter-gatherer tribe but it's impossible to apply on a scale of a modern state.


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15 Sep 2020, 8:29 am

I've seen Communism in Cuba etc.

Imagine a life without hope of bettering yourself.
Imagine a life where your virtues give you nothing, and your efforts are not rewarded, simply 'expected.'
Imagine a life where you are a potplant who will only get water and sunlight as your 'right' but you can never hope for more.

Communism starts with good intentions. Base min wage and things like that make massive good sense but taken too far it becomes a prison. That's what the USSR was. The world's biggest prison for the human spirit.



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15 Sep 2020, 8:33 am

On theory level yes, but I don't think it'll ever actually work in practice.



Fnord
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15 Sep 2020, 8:39 am

BenReillyUK wrote:
... Imagine a life without hope of bettering yourself.  Imagine a life where your virtues give you nothing, and your efforts are not rewarded, simply 'expected'.  Imagine a life where you are a potplant who will only get water and sunlight as your 'right' but you can never hope for more...
This reads like many of the posts in our L&D section.


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magz
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15 Sep 2020, 8:43 am

Fnord wrote:
BenReillyUK wrote:
... Imagine a life without hope of bettering yourself.  Imagine a life where your virtues give you nothing, and your efforts are not rewarded, simply 'expected'.  Imagine a life where you are a potplant who will only get water and sunlight as your 'right' but you can never hope for more...
This reads like many of the posts in our L&D section.

Really? To me it reads like a corporate workplace.


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Fnord
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15 Sep 2020, 8:47 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
BenReillyUK wrote:
... Imagine a life without hope of bettering yourself.  Imagine a life where your virtues give you nothing, and your efforts are not rewarded, simply 'expected'.  Imagine a life where you are a potplant who will only get water and sunlight as your 'right' but you can never hope for more...
This reads like many of the posts in our L&D section.
Really? To me it reads like a corporate workplace.
By Franz Kafka's ghost, I think you nailed it!

Communism: The sheer mind-numbing, soul-draining, life-crushing hopelessness of assembly lines and cubicle farms.


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15 Sep 2020, 8:52 am

Communism is a terrible form of government. No one wants it. That's why communists use deceit to promote it. They've admitted their plans. According to American socialist, Norman Thomas, "under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program."

Communists have to destroy the family by attacking the sanctity of marriage, attacking morality, and steal from the rich to reward fornicators who have children out of wedlock. Once families are destroyed, gullible people turn to the government and communism will soon follow. It's a great threat to America that all people of morals should continually warn people about.



magz
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15 Sep 2020, 8:54 am

I would not equate communism to socialism, especially not to elements of socialism added to market-oriented economies.


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Fnord
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15 Sep 2020, 8:57 am

magz wrote:
I would not equate communism to socialism, especially not to elements of socialism added to market-oriented economies.
Communism relies on feudalism and greed, while Christianity relies on Socialism and compassion.


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15 Sep 2020, 8:57 am

Communism was only ever tried in Pol Pot's Cambodia with the year 0 campaign but was stopped by the North Vietnamese for genocidal activities.So Communism really has never had a real testing ground,China would be the closest to that but China is still more of say a authoritarian Socialist society.

Russia and the Eastern bloc was also an authoritarian Socialist society and western Europe more of a social democracy.

So Communism has never really been adopted by any culture or country so it really does not have a track record to judge it by.

The fact that every country influenced by Marxism went the road of authoritarian socialism or social democracy shows no one have faith in a pure Communist government.That says a lot really.


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