Page 1 of 2 [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 37
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

01 Feb 2022, 2:01 am

A nice depressing article to start the day:

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/welcom ... democracy/

The new autocracy rises from a relentless economic concentration which has engendered a new and fabulously wealthy elite. Five years ago, around four hundred billionaires owned as much as half of the world’s assets. Today, only one hundred billionaires own that share, and Oxfam reduces that number to a mere twenty-six. In avowedly socialist China, the top one percent of the population holds about one-third of the country’s wealth, up from 20 percent two decades ago. Since 1978, China’s Gini coefficient, which measures inequality of wealth distribution, has tripled.

An OECD report issued before the Covid pandemic finds that almost everywhere, the non-rich share of national wealth has declined. These trends can be seen even in social democracies like Sweden and Germany. In the United States, as the conservative economist John Michaelson put it succinctly in 2018, the economic legacy of the last decade is “excessive corporate consolidation, a massive transfer of wealth to the top 1 percent from the middle class.”

...

The old middle class struggles to compete with online platforms. Amazon is able to coerce small businesses to give up their data. As big-box stores have done for decades, Amazon uses its bargaining power to minimize supply-chain issues by leasing its own ships and using its considerable leverage to secure items that smaller companies cannot get. Property is seeing a similar consolidation. As middle-class prosperity falters in Britain, cash-rich Lloyd’s Bank seeks to gobble up the emerging market in distressed properties, apartments and even single-family homes. Meanwhile, the grand houses of central London are restored to Victorian opulence by absentee Russian, Chinese and Arab investors.

...

For the middle and working classes, however, the Great Reset may prove somewhat less promising — if not disastrous. For most people, notes Eric Heymann, a senior economist at Deutsche Bank Research, the rapid “green” transition will mean “a noticeable loss of welfare and jobs.” The conscious policy of degrowth as a means of forcibly reducing greenhouse gas emissions will require getting most people out of their cars, and forcing them to travel far less and to live in tiny apartments. Enforcement will be necessarily intrusive as well. Planners in the UK and elsewhere are pushing for family “carbon budgets.” Add surveillance technology and we end up with something akin to China’s “social credit” system, in which your right to free movement is subject to government approval.

...

As housing and other costs skyrocket, class lines are hardening. Inheritance as a share of GDP in France has grown roughly threefold since 1950, with some upper-income French millennials inheriting more money than many workers make in a lifetime. The growing importance of inherited assets is even more pronounced in Germany, Britain and the United States. In the US, a country with a national mythology that looks askance at inherited wealth, the children of property-owning parents are far better situated to own a house eventually (often with parental help) and enter what is now known as “the funnel of privilege.” In America, millennials are three times as likely as boomers to count on inheritance for their retirement. Among the youngest cohort, aged eighteen to twenty-two, over 60 percent expect that inheritance will be their primary source of income as they age.

How will the downwardly mobile react to the prospect of permanent rental serfdom and, ultimately, total dependence on the state? A recent Edelman survey reveals that increasing numbers no longer trust institutions or believe hard work pays off. In a world dominated by a few institutions, today’s precariat of gig and short-contract workers, and those who have dropped out of the workforce entirely, could become an economically less useful version of Marx’s proletariat: a permanent underclass requiring aggressive, quasi-military policing.

...

We are increasingly ruled by a perfect marriage of class convenience, with more power for the clerisy and ever-greater economic opportunities for the oligarchy — all with the added benefit of encouraging them to feel good about themselves. Even as they push austerity on the masses, they live like medieval lords, indulging in lavish weddings and building estates reminiscent of the Habsburgs’. Jeff Bezos just spent $100 million on a Hawaiian retreat. Bill Gates’s daughter just enjoyed a $2 million wedding. John Kerry, President Biden’s chief climate scold and beneficiary of an heiress’s fortune, travels on a private jet that use thirty times the energy of the average American vehicle.

...

What is the end game for the oligarchs and their clerical allies? Upward mobility for the masses is out of the question. The technology journalist Gregory Ferenstein has interviewed 147 digital company founders. His conclusion: “An increasingly greater share of economic wealth will be generated by a smaller slice of very talented or original people. Everyone else will come to subsist on some combination of part-time entrepreneurial ‘gig work’ and government aid.” In Silicon Valley’s estimation, the mass of people can look forward to life as subsidized consumers of Facebook’s metaverse or Google’s dream of “immersive computing.”


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,659

01 Feb 2022, 3:14 am

it's worse than the sci-fi dystopias of hollywoid: it's all the dystopia and none of the badass aesthetics.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

01 Feb 2022, 3:40 am

Mikah wrote:
For the middle and working classes, however, the Great Reset may prove somewhat less promising — if not disastrous. For most people, notes Eric Heymann, a senior economist at Deutsche Bank Research, the rapid “green” transition will mean “a noticeable loss of welfare and jobs.”

What is the end game for the oligarchs and their clerical allies? Upward mobility for the masses is out of the question. The technology journalist Gregory Ferenstein has interviewed 147 digital company founders. His conclusion: “An increasingly greater share of economic wealth will be generated by a smaller slice of very talented or original people. Everyone else will come to subsist on some combination of part-time entrepreneurial ‘gig work’ and government aid.” In Silicon Valley’s estimation, the mass of people can look forward to life as subsidized consumers of Facebook’s metaverse or Google’s dream of “immersive computing.”[/i]


I can summarise most of your post into the automisation of unskilled and semi-skilled labour



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

01 Feb 2022, 5:41 am

A strangely Marxist piece from the Spectator, though not without its usual conservative tinge.

I think it is particularly “dooming” on the effect of decarbonisation upon the economy. I also don’t think anyone who matters is talking about individual or household carbon budgets in the UK. While I have heard junior officials at Defra call for degrowth, fortunately Defra is roundly incompetent and irrelevant and BEIS is actually the bit of government with responsibility for climate change. Nobody at BEIS is likely to seriously suggest shrinking the economy - in my experience, even the officials working in oil and gas do a good job advocating for their sector.

I think this is the Heymann report referenced: https://www.dbresearch.com/servlet/rewe ... 000513790#

I think the Spectator misrepresents Heymann’s conclusions a little - he doesn’t say that most people will experience decreased welfare and employment. I also think Heymann skims over the role of innovation, but it is fair to say that as things stand we will not be able to make as much steel or cement or glass and that will lead to job losses in those fields and probably related ones. But those are fairly small parts of our economy, particularly in the UK. We’re a service economy. Decarbonisation isn’t going to hurt lawyers and food service.

And no, nobody is going to enforce personal carbon emissions by monitoring what you do because that would be incredibly impractical compared to just taxing fossil fuels, or removing the need to produce carbon dioxide at all (through banning new fossil fuel powered cars or heating systems, for example).

As for housing, we need to move away from housing as an asset, a mindset which has contributed to the housing crisis. We also need to get more housing built in the most desirable areas. Build at mid-density in places with good public transport links, but above all, just build.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,798
Location: the island of defective toy santas

01 Feb 2022, 5:50 am

i would not mind being forced to live in a high-tech rabbit warren so long as the sound insulation was good so i didn't have to hear my neighbors fighting or fornicating.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

01 Feb 2022, 6:06 am

When conservatives start spouting Marxist rhetoric about too much wealth concentration its means that we have entered a new era.

What kind of new era I am not sure. But its a paradigm shift of some sort.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 01 Feb 2022, 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 37
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

01 Feb 2022, 6:43 am

The_Walrus wrote:
I think this is the Heymann report referenced: https://www.dbresearch.com/servlet/rewe ... 000513790#


Seems to be a second or maybe third hand quote from when the report was released almost a year ago. They shouldn't really use quotation marks unless it is word for word. I'd guess they were trying to paraphrase the following in the report:

An honest discussion will have to deal with the truth that each euro spent on climate protection is no longer available for expenses on education, research, public health, digital infrastructure, domestic and external security, tax cuts or higher pensions.
...
A major turnaround in climate policy will certainly produce losers among both households and corporates. In addition, prosperity and employment are likely to suffer considerably.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


roronoa79
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,417
Location: Indiana

01 Feb 2022, 4:45 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
When conservatives start spouting Marxist rhetoric about too much wealth concentration its means that we have entered a new era.

What kind of new era I am not sure. But its a paradigm shift of some sort.

Conservatives only started caring about wealth inequality when the corporations started forcing them to attend racial and gender sensitivity seminars.

That is to say: they don't care about wealth inequality as long as the wealthy reflect their social values and nationalism.

Conservatives also have no coherent solution to addressing wealth inequality, as that would require either:
Passing legislation to fight wealth inequality, which is way too close to socialism for their liking.
Or exerting socio-economic pressure through consumer activism (which they are too few to use effectively), or through empowering workers' rights and unions (again, socialism)

They have no solutions. Only grievance.
They drank the capitalist Kool aid, let corporations do whatever the hell they wanted, and only started caring once those corporations started paying lip service to fags like me and PoC.


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,659

01 Feb 2022, 6:45 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
When conservatives start spouting Marxist rhetoric about too much wealth concentration its means that we have entered a new era.

What kind of new era I am not sure. But its a paradigm shift of some sort.

Conservatives only started caring about wealth inequality when the corporations started forcing them to attend racial and gender sensitivity seminars.

That is to say: they don't care about wealth inequality as long as the wealthy reflect their social values and nationalism.

Conservatives also have no coherent solution to addressing wealth inequality, as that would require either:
Passing legislation to fight wealth inequality, which is way too close to socialism for their liking.
Or exerting socio-economic pressure through consumer activism (which they are too few to use effectively), or through empowering workers' rights and unions (again, socialism)

They have no solutions. Only grievance.
They drank the capitalist Kool aid, let corporations do whatever the hell they wanted, and only started caring once those corporations started paying lip service to fags like me and PoC.


that's one way to look at it, things are bleaker than that: since almost everyone is on the short end of the wealth divide, so are conservatives. There's so few winners in this that their politics don't really matter insofar as, if you're on the verge of losing your home, it matters little what party the richest person on the planet is affiliated with.
It all just means there's enough potential for socialists and conservatives to clash over *how* to fix this. Both sides see a necessity to do something, but both have different ideas what to fight for.
If the rich play this well, the poor will fight each other. That's kinda how national socialism got started, but the ruling elite lost control over the angry masses quickly.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

01 Feb 2022, 7:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
When conservatives start spouting Marxist rhetoric about too much wealth concentration its means that we have entered a new era.

What kind of new era I am not sure. But its a paradigm shift of some sort.


The natural process of the evolving neo-capital systems (across all countries) is to move toward wealth concentration in fewer and fewer hands
https://www.vox.com/2014/4/8/5592198/th ... st-century

There is nothing new in the OPs article that wasn't known before. What is unique in the modern era is how this process is accelerating due to two reasons
1. Offshore relocation of manufacturing to peripheral regions where labour is cheaper
2. The automisation of the workforce due to artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics

The latter (2) is a byproduct of Silicon Valley type enterprises across the globe. Even jobs that require communication and technical skills will be replaced. Teachers, journalists and managers will be replaced by AI in the next 50 years. For example paying a journalist $250,000/yr to host a TV program is unnecessary when you can have an AI bot who can do it for free.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,238
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

02 Feb 2022, 2:23 am

Funny how right wingers had addressed our fear of growing income inequality in the recent past by accusing the rest of us of class envy.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


theprisoner
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jan 2021
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,431
Location: Britain

02 Feb 2022, 2:26 am

Atleast 50 years in the making.


_________________
AQ: 27 Diagnosis:High functioning (just on the cusp of normal.) IQ:131 (somewhat inflated result but ego-flattering) DNA:XY Location: UK. Eyes: Blue. Hair: Brown. Height:6'1 Celebrity I most resemble: Tom hardy. Favorite Band: The Doors. Personality: uhhm ....(what can i say...we asd people are strange)


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

02 Feb 2022, 2:59 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Funny how right wingers had addressed our fear of growing income inequality in the recent past by accusing the rest of us of class envy.


I guess when the shoe is on the other foot suddenly they feel the pain. A lot of people who lost their job blamed foreign workers for taking their jobs when the real culprit was their employers wanting to please shareholders and senior executives by downsizing or relocating overseas.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,238
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

02 Feb 2022, 3:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Funny how right wingers had addressed our fear of growing income inequality in the recent past by accusing the rest of us of class envy.


I guess when the shoe is on the other foot suddenly they feel the pain. A lot of people who lost their job blamed foreign workers for taking their jobs when the real culprit was their employers wanting to please shareholders and senior executives by downsizing or relocating overseas.


But then again, they're the same people who see the business community and shareholders as demigods, far wiser and magnificent than us mere mortals, and beyond reproach.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,160
Location: Adelaide, Australia

02 Feb 2022, 8:43 am

So democracy is ending because rich people have power? If that's what it takes to kill demacry than democrats died before it even begun because rich people have always had power.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


roronoa79
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,417
Location: Indiana

02 Feb 2022, 9:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Funny how right wingers had addressed our fear of growing income inequality in the recent past by accusing the rest of us of class envy.

:lmao:
Granted, most of these conservatives do not actually have an issue with there being an elite who hoard wealth and influence at the expense of the public. They just get upset when that elite doesn't agree with their social policies. Even their transparent, insincere lip service to leftist causes for PR purposes is too much for the right.

The right feels as furious at the elite as they do because they know that this is a result of them enabling the elite and giving them freedom to influence politics and society as much as their $$$ permitted. What did they think was going to happen? The elite saw the writing on the wall about who is constantly losing the culture wars and they picked the winning side because it's better for business.


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.