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KikiKitty678
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25 Oct 2020, 8:09 pm

Climate change isn’t that bad yet...but before you call me an anti-environmentalist for saying that, that’s *more* of a reason to take action. We won’t be extinct in thirty years, and if we don’t take action we’ll look back on when there used to be seasons, wildfires didn’t happen in every region of the world, etc. and get nostalgic. We’ve thought climate change was “the end” and a reason to panic in an unhelpful way and do the opposite of what needs to be done out of emotion for decades.

So let’s stop living recklessly because “we’ve gone too far.” Let’s be civil and mind our actions.



shlaifu
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25 Oct 2020, 8:43 pm

Who's living recklessly because we've gone too far? - we're all living recklessly because we have no imaginative capacity for what a small increase in temperature means.
It'll be less comfortable for people who live on the top floors of buildings, that's for sure - but in already warm places it will mean drought. Drought will mean starvation, it will mean people fleeing rural areas looking for a place in cities, where there's water reservoirs etc. - that means social tensions, housing problrms and slums, or it can exacerbate existing tensions, lead to civil unrest and war and lots and lots of refugees.
In the past, crises caused problems in waves, but the climate situation is creating permanent crisis. There's hasn't been a 'normal' summer this century like they used to be in the 20th century.

Yes, we should adapt, and yes, a few degrees up won't be a catastrophe - if you're starting out at a moderate climate. We will have massive social problems handling the fallout from the issues arising in countries where the baseline temperature is already pretty high.


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KikiKitty678
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26 Oct 2020, 7:16 am

shlaifu wrote:
Who's living recklessly because we've gone too far? - we're all living recklessly because we have no imaginative capacity for what a small increase in temperature means.
It'll be less comfortable for people who live on the top floors of buildings, that's for sure - but in already warm places it will mean drought. Drought will mean starvation, it will mean people fleeing rural areas looking for a place in cities, where there's water reservoirs etc. - that means social tensions, housing problrms and slums, or it can exacerbate existing tensions, lead to civil unrest and war and lots and lots of refugees.
In the past, crises caused problems in waves, but the climate situation is creating permanent crisis. There's hasn't been a 'normal' summer this century like they used to be in the 20th century.

Yes, we should adapt, and yes, a few degrees up won't be a catastrophe - if you're starting out at a moderate climate. We will have massive social problems handling the fallout from the issues arising in countries where the baseline temperature is already pretty high.


I should have clarified. Yes, it’s out of hand. But by “not that bad” I meant it will be even worse in the future if we don’t take action, and we’ll look back and wonder why we thought it was too late already and freaked out to the point of doing the opposite of the action we knew we should do.

Most people I know absolutely care about the climate crisis, but are weak-willed. Weak will often is a part of being stressed to the point of not being able to function. The idea that panic is helpful may be good for people who don’t freak out enough, though. Come to think of it, there are people who truly don’t care and that’s why they don’t take action.

I was assuming that people didn’t take action because of weak will due to panic, and by “not that bad” I meant even worse things will happen in the future if we don’t keep it from getting as bad as it could be, and let’s put it in perspective.

But even worse is when people don’t care and underestimate it. You’re right, that’s so many of us. I just happen to be naive and assume most people freak out too much and are weak-willed. So I meant “not that bad” compared to the end-of-the-world, gone-too-far mentality.



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26 Oct 2020, 7:26 am

The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

When that happens, do panic.



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26 Oct 2020, 7:27 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

Isn't it already?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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26 Oct 2020, 7:28 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

Isn't it already?



"In the past three decades the MENA region has more than tripled its greenhouse gas emissions and is currently emitting above the global average per person, with most of the top ten countries by carbon dioxide emissions per person being found in the Middle East."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_c ... dle%20East.



Mr Reynholm
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26 Oct 2020, 10:32 am

The climate has always been changing and will always be changing. Someone found a way to attach a political agenda to it.



malavois
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26 Oct 2020, 2:16 pm

KikiKitty678 wrote:
Climate change isn’t that bad yet...but before you call me an anti-environmentalist for saying that, that’s *more* of a reason to take action. We won’t be extinct in thirty years, and if we don’t take action we’ll look back on when there used to be seasons, wildfires didn’t happen in every region of the world, etc. and get nostalgic. We’ve thought climate change was “the end” and a reason to panic in an unhelpful way and do the opposite of what needs to be done out of emotion for decades.

So let’s stop living recklessly because “we’ve gone too far.” Let’s be civil and mind our actions.


This sounds like a very reasonable opinion to me.



roronoa79
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26 Oct 2020, 9:22 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

When that happens, do panic.

The first that come to my mind are the low-lying nations of the Pacific. Their land will be literally wiped off the map. Better visit Kiribati while you still can...
But yes, this will be yet another force pushing down on the Middle Eastern pressure cooker.


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26 Oct 2020, 9:29 pm

No, we are not likely to go extinct as a result of climate change alone. The End being brought by climate change is more a destruction of the world order and economy. Crop failures, natural disasters, famine, instability, wars over decreasing resources, conflicts among peoples fleeing their sinking or burning homelands, desperation, failed states, people turning to strongmen to take decisive action, the masses turning against the capitalism that allowed this all to happen. These are the things we will likely face if the factors driving climate change are not addressed.
As a whole we will likely not fo extinct unless things go nuclear. But it's not going to be pretty. I imagine something along the lines of the Bronze Age Collapse but on a global scale.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


CarlM
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26 Oct 2020, 10:11 pm

KikiKitty678 wrote:
Climate change isn’t that bad yet...but before you call me an anti-environmentalist for saying that, that’s *more* of a reason to take action. We won’t be extinct in thirty years, and if we don’t take action we’ll look back on when there used to be seasons, wildfires didn’t happen in every region of the world, etc. and get nostalgic. We’ve thought climate change was “the end” and a reason to panic in an unhelpful way and do the opposite of what needs to be done out of emotion for decades.

So let’s stop living recklessly because “we’ve gone too far.” Let’s be civil and mind our actions.
This is a reasonable view on CC.

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The climate has always been changing and will always be changing. Someone found a way to attach a political agenda to it.
This is an unreasonable view on CC.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Oct 2020, 4:30 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

When that happens, do panic.

The first that come to my mind are the low-lying nations of the Pacific. Their land will be literally wiped off the map. Better visit Kiribati while you still can...
But yes, this will be yet another force pushing down on the Middle Eastern pressure cooker.


It's almost November already and I am still wearing short and sleeveless shirt and turning on the AC at night; that's not at all the usual.



roronoa79
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27 Oct 2020, 11:09 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

When that happens, do panic.

The first that come to my mind are the low-lying nations of the Pacific. Their land will be literally wiped off the map. Better visit Kiribati while you still can...
But yes, this will be yet another force pushing down on the Middle Eastern pressure cooker.


It's almost November already and I am still wearing short and sleeveless shirt and turning on the AC at night; that's not at all the usual.

Idk if I misspoke or what. I meant pressure cooker in a metaphorical sense. Idk how unusual weather has gotten in your neck of the woods. I imagine the Mediterranean keeps things milder in general? At least compared to where I live which is more continental.


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I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


Tempus Fugit
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28 Oct 2020, 2:19 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The climate has always been changing and will always be changing. Someone found a way to attach a political agenda to it.


The stickers I see saying, "PLS VOTE NOW! LAST CHANCE TO SAVE OUR PLANET" pretty much sums it up.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Oct 2020, 2:27 am

roronoa79 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Middle East will be the first doomed area.

When that happens, do panic.

The first that come to my mind are the low-lying nations of the Pacific. Their land will be literally wiped off the map. Better visit Kiribati while you still can...
But yes, this will be yet another force pushing down on the Middle Eastern pressure cooker.


It's almost November already and I am still wearing short and sleeveless shirt and turning on the AC at night; that's not at all the usual.

Idk if I misspoke or what. I meant pressure cooker in a metaphorical sense. Idk how unusual weather has gotten in your neck of the woods. I imagine the Mediterranean keeps things milder in general? At least compared to where I live which is more continental.



Nope, I got your figurative language, I was simply confirming what you said.

Where I live, autumn was usually colder with some rain - I recall when I was younger beaches used to close early September; winter is shrinking lately.

Whether it is man-made or not, the CC is real indeed.



KikiKitty678
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28 Oct 2020, 6:40 pm

97 percent of scientists agree that it’s man-made. We need to take action. Soon. But panicking doesn’t help. That was my point.