The rise of right wing narrative in France.
The_Face_of_Boo
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The video does not attempt to be neutral or balanced but I understand its purpose is to show a very particular point of view.
The French seem to indeed have a problem with integrating minorities, especially Muslim. I remember the long skirt affair https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/worl ... igion.html where a Muslim girl was sent home from school for "too long skirt" - because after hijabs were banned, Muslim teenagers manifested their religion by long skirts (girls) and beards (boys).
Crazy.
The Dutch figured it out better. Soon after the Charlie Hebdo killings I had some business in Amsterdam. On the airport, I saw something remarkably usual and unusual at the same time: two airport workers were chatting with each other. They were an European man and a veiled woman.
The Dutch seem not to fight hijabs (and long skirts...) but they choose the parts of culture that seem much more relevant to me.
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I despise my country’s nativism, but then I look to our cousins on the continent and with a few exceptions (Sweden, Germany, and even then it’s not uniform) we’re much more liberal and tolerant.
I thought Macron was going to be a hero, but he just keeps disappointing me with statements that would be considered far-right in this country. And he hasn’t even sorted out the French problem with unions. Obviously preferable to Le Pen and Melenchon, and BoJo for that matter, but nonetheless...
The_Face_of_Boo
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^ Frankly, I've changed my mind - I stand with Macron - after seeing the Muslim reactions in France, the riots and the threatening ...etc, and after reading the hysterical and hypocritical comments by Muslim immigrants trying to impose their backward views on their host country - which are not few - I would say If I was an European leader I would work hard to pass a law to to remove the citizenships of those idiots and kick them back to their home countries. No wonder the right wing is rising.
Half of Muslims cannot co-exist with others in a secular nation with secular values. Period.
The French seem to indeed have a problem with integrating minorities, especially Muslim. I remember the long skirt affair https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/worl ... igion.html where a Muslim girl was sent home from school for "too long skirt" - because after hijabs were banned, Muslim teenagers manifested their religion by long skirts (girls) and beards (boys).
Crazy.
The Dutch figured it out better. Soon after the Charlie Hebdo killings I had some business in Amsterdam. On the airport, I saw something remarkably usual and unusual at the same time: two airport workers were chatting with each other. They were an European man and a veiled woman.
The Dutch seem not to fight hijabs (and long skirts...) but they choose the parts of culture that seem much more relevant to me.
France seems to have a very assimilationist view- to them, if you live in France, you are French, not Algerian or Congolese or Breton or whatever. On the plus side, it can make it easier for people of immigrant stock to be accepted as equal. On the minus side, there is zero tolerance for them acting in a "non-French" manner, as with the hijab.
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Well, things are certainly not going to get any more civilized after the attack in Nice today...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957
I think this might escalate into major international incident, as Macron and Erdogan are already on a collision course…
As if COVID-19 wasn't bad enough...
The French seem to indeed have a problem with integrating minorities, especially Muslim. I remember the long skirt affair https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/worl ... igion.html where a Muslim girl was sent home from school for "too long skirt" - because after hijabs were banned, Muslim teenagers manifested their religion by long skirts (girls) and beards (boys).
Crazy.
The Dutch figured it out better. Soon after the Charlie Hebdo killings I had some business in Amsterdam. On the airport, I saw something remarkably usual and unusual at the same time: two airport workers were chatting with each other. They were an European man and a veiled woman.
The Dutch seem not to fight hijabs (and long skirts...) but they choose the parts of culture that seem much more relevant to me.
France seems to have a very assimilationist view- to them, if you live in France, you are French, not Algerian or Congolese or Breton or whatever. On the plus side, it can make it easier for people of immigrant stock to be accepted as equal. On the minus side, there is zero tolerance for them acting in a "non-French" manner, as with the hijab.
From what I understand the country operates along the same lines that most people do in their normal life:
If you are the guest of (or living under the roof of) another person, then the onus is on you to adapt to the "rules" where you are living, and not to expect\demand that the host change the "rules" to suit what you want.
Half of Muslims cannot co-exist with others in a secular nation with secular values. Period.
Mein BooFührer!
Jokes aside, it's not a specifically Muslim problem, it's a human one. Muslims are just the energetic problem group of the day. If it were any other group, while things might play out a different way, the destination is always the same.
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Just let's not confuse them with the other half
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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
I guess this is in response to the COVID situation there---but people in France, at this moment, have to fill out a form laying out the reason why they must go out. Otherwise, people must stay in their homes.
The second lockdown begins tomorrow. Today, people are free to move
The French seem to indeed have a problem with integrating minorities, especially Muslim. I remember the long skirt affair https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/worl ... igion.html where a Muslim girl was sent home from school for "too long skirt" - because after hijabs were banned, Muslim teenagers manifested their religion by long skirts (girls) and beards (boys).
Crazy.
The Dutch figured it out better. Soon after the Charlie Hebdo killings I had some business in Amsterdam. On the airport, I saw something remarkably usual and unusual at the same time: two airport workers were chatting with each other. They were an European man and a veiled woman.
The Dutch seem not to fight hijabs (and long skirts...) but they choose the parts of culture that seem much more relevant to me.
France seems to have a very assimilationist view- to them, if you live in France, you are French, not Algerian or Congolese or Breton or whatever. On the plus side, it can make it easier for people of immigrant stock to be accepted as equal. On the minus side, there is zero tolerance for them acting in a "non-French" manner, as with the hijab.
From what I understand the country operates along the same lines that most people do in their normal life:
If you are the guest of (or living under the roof of) another person, then the onus is on you to adapt to the "rules" where you are living, and not to expect\demand that the host change the "rules" to suit what you want.
If the immigrants are truly considered French now, they have just as much right as the ethnic French to have a say in the rules. Conversely, if they are still "guests," the host has as much of a duty to behave well as the guest does. As an atheist, if I have a Christian staying as a guest, I'm not going to say to them "You are forbidden to pray under my roof. Plus, in this house we start the day by spitting on and trampling the crucifix."
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French nationalism has always used the language of secularism to demonize non-atheists and non-Christians. Anyone who isn't french enough is treated as an Other. You better consider yourself french before you consider yourself Muslim or Breton or Occitan or Jewish. Or you somehow hate secular democracy. Like being French isn't good enough for you
Muslims living in france have lived in de facto segregation and second-class citizenship. Don't forget that Algerians in French Algeria were denied French citizenship unless they renounced Islam. And then they are baffled that they fought so bitterly for independence.
France has always had a massive problem with integration and tolerance. This has been buoyed by the French self-delusion that France is immune to fascism or racism. It's a kind of post-Vichy denial upheld by French people seeing themselves as only victims of nationalism and never nationalists themselves.
This is more or less the same rhetoric used by the American right to paint muslims as anti-democratic and wanting to impose their religious values on others. So I can't help but assume the french right is as full of it as the American right in this regard. They do not want to impose eeeeeevil muslim laws on others. The only religious groups I see trying to impose their religion on others are Christians and atheists. I interact with Muslims every day here in America. Theyre ordinary people. They just want basic dignity and respect. And, you know, they don't want to be accused of being a threat to America if they don't convert and vote republican.
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The_Face_of_Boo
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Muslims living in france have lived in de facto segregation and second-class citizenship. Don't forget that Algerians in French Algeria were denied French citizenship unless they renounced Islam. And then they are baffled that they fought so bitterly for independence.
France has always had a massive problem with integration and tolerance. This has been buoyed by the French self-delusion that France is immune to fascism or racism. It's a kind of post-Vichy denial upheld by French people seeing themselves as only victims of nationalism and never nationalists themselves.
This is more or less the same rhetoric used by the American right to paint muslims as anti-democratic and wanting to impose their religious values on others. So I can't help but assume the french right is as full of it as the American right in this regard. They do not want to impose eeeeeevil muslim laws on others. The only religious groups I see trying to impose their religion on others are Christians and atheists. I interact with Muslims every day here in America. Theyre ordinary people. They just want basic dignity and respect. And, you know, they don't want to be accused of being a threat to America if they don't convert and vote republican.
Muslims in Europe have way more radicals than Muslims in America continent. All kind of filth belonging to Muslim Brotherhood are *historically* established in Europe. Just remember who were joining ISIS the most in its peak glory.
The US on the other hand got the educated elites of Muslim societies, a lot of them there are doctors, engineers and scientists; and got there due to their professions.
Generalizing that Muslims don’t try to impose their religion on others is a proof that you’re not aware of the filthy things a lot of Muslims in Europe, especially their clerics, do and say. Like... have you ever followed the news of Europe?
France is particular had suffered a lot of terrorist attacks more than any European country.
Besides claiming that atheists impose their “religion” more than Muslims...? I find this hard to believe, I don’t buy it for a second.
There are many flavors of Islam.
In Poland, we have a traditionally Sunni Muslim minority of Tatar descendants. They have peacefully coexisted with Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants and Jews for centuries.
More recent immigrants seem quite peaceful, too, maybe because we're not a popular immigration destination
But I have another suspition: additionally to religious differences, France has quite a lot of colonial history in North Africa that might have radicalized attitudes on completely different grounds, religion being a tip of an iceberg.
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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
