People against freedom of speech and opinion more now.

Page 1 of 20 [ 317 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next

ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 41
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

17 Dec 2020, 2:21 pm

It seems now with so much cancel culture out there, wanting to cancel a person because they say this, or believe that, etc., that many people do not believe in freedom of speech or opinions like they use to.

In the 60s for example, it seems so many people in American and western culture fought for freedom of expression, but fast foward about 60 years later, and so many people are against it seems.

What happened to change so many people's mindset, out of curiosity?



Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

17 Dec 2020, 2:46 pm

I don't think most people have ever really cared about the principle of free speech, only a strange minority that held enough influence for a while. Most prefer the comfortable blanket of a totalitarian speech code instead. Free speech was just fashionable for a while.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

17 Dec 2020, 2:58 pm

"Free Speech" does not mean that anyone has to listen to what you have to say, or even agree with you when you say it.  In fact, just because you express your own hardfast beliefs in a public forum, that does not mean that no one else can express an opposing hardfast belief, or dispute your opinions with facts.

"Free Speech" does not shield you from criticism or the consequences of declaring your beliefs, either.  If you get banned from an on-line community website, your "Free Speech" rights have not been violated -- it usually means that someone on that website thinks you are a troll and they are just throwing you out with the rest of the trash.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

17 Dec 2020, 2:59 pm

I think people whine and complain a lot about 'muh free speech' for the wrong reasons...some of the 'opinions' people have been shamed for are quite harmful. And to my knowledge those people haven't been arrested for what they said, just have found the public and perhaps online platforms now would prefer to keep their distance. Freedom of speech does not mean you don't have to face the consequences of what you say....


_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

17 Dec 2020, 3:05 pm

Things that are not protected under "Free Speech":

• Burning Draft Cards
• Child Pornography
• Comments Made While Holding Certain Occupations
• Endorsing Candidates from the Pulpit
• Fighting Words
• Incitement to Suicide
• Obscenity (Community standards may vary)
• School Newspapers
• Speaking Freely in Limited Public Forums (Like the State Fair)
• Threatening the President of the United States
• Writing Whatever You Want About Someone (Libel)
• Yelling "Fire!" in a Crowded Theater (Incitement to Imminent Lawless Action)


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


Last edited by Fnord on 17 Dec 2020, 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

uncommondenominator
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2019
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,706

17 Dec 2020, 3:05 pm

People use the term "cancel culture" whenever a person is "cancelled" for a reason they disagree with. Acting like people are "canceled" for minor arbitrary reasons or because of simple "differences of opinion" is just part of the illusion of the narrative.

When people agree with the reasons for "cancelling" someone, they just call it "holding that person responsible for their actions", or a "boycott". But as soon as they don't like the reasons for it, it gets branded "cancel culture".

People still care greatly about freedom of speech. But most people don't fully understand how freedom of speech works. So you get idiotic statements like "this is AMERICA, I can say whatever I want, so SHUT UP!" - and completely fail to see the irony.

There's also those who believe "freedom of speech" somehow is meant to protect them from the consequences of their speech. Many times people have invoked the cry of "cancel culture!" because a person got fired for saying things a person should get fired over.

For the most part, the only "freedom of speech" people are more against today is the "freedom" to say outdated bigoted ideas and not be treated like an outdated bigot as a result of saying them.

Nobody's mindset changed. People collectively still want freedom of speech. They just aim to use (or subvert) it differently.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 41
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

17 Dec 2020, 3:07 pm

Oh okay, but to me freedom of speech means no consequences. Otherwise it's not a freedom.

When you say people fail to see the irony, what irony?



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

17 Dec 2020, 3:15 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but to me freedom of speech means no consequences. Otherwise it's not a freedom.

When you say people fail to see the irony, what irony?


Well true unregulated 'freedom' would be anarchy, do you want anarchy? I don't think a country could function if the citizens had complete freedom.


_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

17 Dec 2020, 3:19 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but to me freedom of speech means no consequences...
Freedom of speech and freedom from consequences are two entirely different and unrelated issues.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 41
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

17 Dec 2020, 3:22 pm

Oh okay, I thought that is was freedom was, as in without consequences for it, thus freedom to do it.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

17 Dec 2020, 3:30 pm

If you call somebody the "N-word," that person has the "freedom" to punch you in the face. That's freedom of speech--with consequences!



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 41
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

17 Dec 2020, 3:32 pm

Well technically that person does not have the freedom to punch you back in the sense that assault is illegal and not a freedom, so I didn't think that was a freedom either. Of course people are not going to feel sorry for the person getting punched in that exact scenario still though.



Last edited by ironpony on 17 Dec 2020, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Dec 2020, 3:33 pm

ironpony wrote:
It seems now with so much cancel culture out there, wanting to cancel a person because they say this, or believe that, etc., that many people do not believe in freedom of speech or opinions like they use to.

In the 60s for example, it seems so many people in American and western culture fought for freedom of expression, but fast foward about 60 years later, and so many people are against it seems.

What happened to change so many people's mindset, out of curiosity?


One word: LeftWingIdeology. 8)



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

17 Dec 2020, 3:35 pm

I believe PC is garbage....but I do believe in some things that the "left-wingers" espouse.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

17 Dec 2020, 3:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If you call somebody the "N-word," that person has the "freedom" to punch you in the face. That's freedom of speech--with consequences!


Bull-dust.
That is lack of emotional discipline.
That sort of attitude gives license for uncivil behaviour.

That is one of the silliest things I have seen you post, KK. :mrgreen:

Remember: "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never break me"?



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

17 Dec 2020, 3:39 pm

I don't care if it's "silly."

We just have to stop this crap.

We have to stop trying to push boundaries by provoking people.