Uggghhh...
People on a local news site are complaining about Biden stopping the drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge because "now gas will be higher"...
All I stated was people need to get away from oil dependence because it's a limited resource...
I got laugh and angry reacted by so many people, even my own cousin...
What's wrong with what I said?
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Not everyone can go out and buy an electric car. Not everyone can just commute if they don't live where there is transportation or reliable ones. Not everyone can Uber or Lyft and, nor can they afford it all the time and it's not always reliable either.
Until all cars become electric, people can't just stop using gas for their cars if cars are still a necessity in the US.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
All I stated was people need to get away from oil dependence because it's a limited resource...
I got laugh and angry reacted by so many people, even my own cousin...
What's wrong with what I said?
I would guess that those other people do not share your interest in wildlife and the environment. They seem more concerned with the economy.
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
All I stated was people need to get away from oil dependence because it's a limited resource...
I got laugh and angry reacted by so many people, even my own cousin...
What's wrong with what I said?
I would guess that those other people do not share your interest in wildlife and the environment. They seem more concerned with the economy.
Or concerned they wouldn't be able to get to work anymore or go to the store and places where they need to go?
Only way to change that is if we change how we make cars and make them be all electrified and change how we make fuel and it will take a while for it to take affect before everyone will have cars that take gasoline not made from oil or have electric cars.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Sweetleaf
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Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Until all cars become electric, people can't just stop using gas for their cars if cars are still a necessity in the US.
Well, obviously it will take time to move away from oil dependence, but if we want the planet to remain habitable it is essential. I do not think anyone is suggesting everyone just instantly stop driving their car and get an electric one.
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Most charging stations I have seen have been at restaurants that are not fast food. Most likely because it takes about as much time to charge a battery as it does to order l, receive, and eat an appetizer, entree, and dessert.
Until all cars become electric, people can't just stop using gas for their cars if cars are still a necessity in the US.
Cheap fossil fuel is only a short term solution, and other options are rapidly gaining ground. One of the few plus points of the Covid-19 crisis has been in demonstrating that a lot of office workers don't actually need to work in an office, most of the time, so simply not commuting has considerable environmental merit.
Electric power is only a partial fix in any case, its only real advantages lie in efficiencies of scale from generating in big power stations rather than running lots of little power plants on the roads. That also opens up the possibility of using wave, wind and solar -generated power to charge your vehicle. But in practice the manufacture of a lot of this kit isn't very energy efficient, there's a reliance on rare metals in the battery tech, and some "eco" equipment such as wind turbines aren't designed to be recycled when they're life expired. There's also a lot of reliance on nuclear power which is great provided it doesn't go wrong AND we can safely look after the waste for thousands of years without doing anything stupid. So no flaws in that plan, then.
It's going to take some radical thinking to move green power generation forward. If we accept that some short-term environmental manufacturing cost is inevitable, the key factor becomes getting the maximum long term return for it, ready for when the fossil fuels run out. What's the best position we can get ourselves in before the coal and oil supplies are exhausted?
One option I like, conceptually, is to make the roads and sidewalks huge, linear solar panels. We've covered an awful lot of the planet in asphalt, why not make better use of it? Not sure how well that stacks up in terms of future generating potential vs. manufacturing environmental cost, though.
It would also make sense to concentrate technology where it does the most good. Wind turbines in the world's windiest places, solar panels in the world's sunniest places, wave generators (possibly combined with plastic traps) in the world's choppiest locations. But that'll take a lot more cooperation than anyone seems capable of right now.
I'm also interested in technology that extracts more benefit from the fossil fuel we have left. It's on borrowed time, why waste it? The new Koenigsegg power plant that uses individual valve control to extract 600bhp out of a small, lightweight 2-litre power plant seems to have a lot of potential there. Obviously they're a top-end car company but in a couple of years could we be seeing very high efficiency, small, lightweight 750cc, 150bhp engines in ordinary cars? Possibly double the fuel economy we see today?
The big elephants in the room are population growth and its close friend perpetual economic growth. Any efforts to address those would immediately trigger libertarian protestors accusing everyone of "fascism" in interfering with their freedoms, but when that's basically their freedom to bugger everything up for future generations I'd argue it's probably time to shut up and grow up. Actually getting anyone to agree on anything internationally, though, would be one hell of a challenge.
I dont disagree with OP, I am just saying people can't just stop using oil if they live where cars are a necessity. I think that is why her family got offended.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Not destroying the alaskan wildlife refuge for oil, is not going to stop people who need gasoline getting it, seems their family is kinda jumping to conclusions.
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RetroGamer87
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,186
Location: Adelaide, Australia
......yyyyyyyeah, oil dependence issues are yet another on the long list of reasons why I would need to move elsewhere in order to be eco-friendly. I've checked the distribution of charging stations in my area. There isn't one for a good 20 miles in either direction. Heck, there's only two gas stations on a good 30-mile strip of road.
Not to mention I'm not in control of the house so I can't just install the right jack.
AND mine's an area that experiences winter power outages, which means a solution has to involve retrofitting the house to be extremely well-insulated (which, to be fair, is something already done in my current residence) and possibly with good backups that unfortunately ALSO rely on rare metals.
It IS a limited resource, and I know it. Your statement isn't WRONG, if I had to take a guess it doesn't reflect local realities.
And regarding the economy comment - the logic is "if people are well-off they'll consider for efficiency and sustainability, if people are suffering financially they'll just use the cheap destructive stuff because it's easier". I don't know if they're smart enough to know that... and I wager that solving for that equation requires more personal involvement than they've ever seen in their lives.
I will tell you it's not MY prices that I'm worried about here. I have ways to cover that. I'm guessing a lot of these people do not, or they personally know people for whom it's not an option.
Until all cars become electric, people can't just stop using gas for their cars if cars are still a necessity in the US.
Cheap fossil fuel is only a short term solution, and other options are rapidly gaining ground. One of the few plus points of the Covid-19 crisis has been in demonstrating that a lot of office workers don't actually need to work in an office, most of the time, so simply not commuting has considerable environmental merit.
Electric power is only a partial fix in any case, its only real advantages lie in efficiencies of scale from generating in big power stations rather than running lots of little power plants on the roads. That also opens up the possibility of using wave, wind and solar -generated power to charge your vehicle. But in practice the manufacture of a lot of this kit isn't very energy efficient, there's a reliance on rare metals in the battery tech, and some "eco" equipment such as wind turbines aren't designed to be recycled when they're life expired. There's also a lot of reliance on nuclear power which is great provided it doesn't go wrong AND we can safely look after the waste for thousands of years without doing anything stupid. So no flaws in that plan, then.
It's going to take some radical thinking to move green power generation forward. If we accept that some short-term environmental manufacturing cost is inevitable, the key factor becomes getting the maximum long term return for it, ready for when the fossil fuels run out. What's the best position we can get ourselves in before the coal and oil supplies are exhausted?
One option I like, conceptually, is to make the roads and sidewalks huge, linear solar panels. We've covered an awful lot of the planet in asphalt, why not make better use of it? Not sure how well that stacks up in terms of future generating potential vs. manufacturing environmental cost, though.
It would also make sense to concentrate technology where it does the most good. Wind turbines in the world's windiest places, solar panels in the world's sunniest places, wave generators (possibly combined with plastic traps) in the world's choppiest locations. But that'll take a lot more cooperation than anyone seems capable of right now.
I'm also interested in technology that extracts more benefit from the fossil fuel we have left. It's on borrowed time, why waste it? The new Koenigsegg power plant that uses individual valve control to extract 600bhp out of a small, lightweight 2-litre power plant seems to have a lot of potential there. Obviously they're a top-end car company but in a couple of years could we be seeing very high efficiency, small, lightweight 750cc, 150bhp engines in ordinary cars? Possibly double the fuel economy we see today?
The big elephants in the room are population growth and its close friend perpetual economic growth. Any efforts to address those would immediately trigger libertarian protestors accusing everyone of "fascism" in interfering with their freedoms, but when that's basically their freedom to bugger everything up for future generations I'd argue it's probably time to shut up and grow up. Actually getting anyone to agree on anything internationally, though, would be one hell of a challenge.
You gonna have any objections if I include nuclear reactors in the solutions to oil dependence? I ask because I'm trying to also account for areas that aren't good for ANY of the "standard" green energy solutions. It's not exactly a renewable source but the idea is to buy time for a renewable that actually DOES work there.
And regarding rare metals... I think Toyota and a few other companies were working on that. Not just trying other materials, but also something about the "grain size" when I tried to look up rechargeables that didn't use rare metals? Not sure about this.
Re: perpetual economic growth. The fact that digital currencies exist tells me that they can have that cake and eat it too and STILL be eco-friendly.
