America is NOT a Racist Country.
ASPartOfMe
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20 May 2021, 7:38 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So when today's children are grown up do you think their CRT training will have made them more tolerant, enlightened and better people in the future? Or will it stoke animosity and resentment among all groups?
Being told the bad parts of American history or your group will make people feel bad, angry, etc. But it is necessary to a certain extent. CRT posits that you must constantly scrutinize your actions and thoughts for evidence of privilege and racism. It posits you must get rid of your "whiteness". If you by definition are racist because of your white privilege getting rid of your racism is impossible because you will always have that unfair privilege. That is going to make most people taught this at such young ages either dangerous anti-authority bigots or make them compliant, fearful sheep with dangerously bad self-esteem.
As I have linked to, the way Critical Race Theory-based training has too often been implemented has similarities to how Applied Behavioral Analysis therapies too often has been implemented. Both rely on the idea of who you are is wrong and correction involves constantly being made uncomfortable because you need to think about how your behavior or thinking is wrong. This is a horrible thing to do to children. At least with ABA, the child gets rewards.
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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 20 May 2021, 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 7:42 pm
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish the KKK would be blown to smithereens.
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
White privilege is kind of like a sleeping power that is invoked or activated in certain circumstances. The classic one is where a white employer has two applicants with nearly exactly the same qualifications but one is white, they will (in all probability) choose the white applicant.
So in a country like Kenya would there be "Black Privilege" or "Yellow Privilege" in South Korea? Is privilege determined by the majority population? If so should CRT be amended accordingly and exported?
There's a considerable difference between indigenous/native majority privilege and contrived privilege based on a person's phenotype.
So which one describes white privilege in Europe? It's kinda both, but to some extent it can be a problem either way. Should Asian Africans (East and South Asian diaspora in Africa) be denied opportunities in lands they've lived in for several generations because of their ancestry?
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Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 7:45 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So when today's children are grown up do you think their CRT training will have made them more tolerant, enlightened and better people in the future? Or will it stoke animosity and resentment among all groups?
Being told the bad parts of American history or your group will make people feel bad, angry etc. But it is necessary. CRT posits that you must scrutinize action and thought for evidence of privilege and racism. It posits you must get rid of your "whiteness". If you by definition racist because of your white privilege getting rid of your racism is impossible. That is going to make most people taught this at such young ages either dangerous anti-authority bigots or make them compliant, fearful sheep with dangourously bad self-esteem.
As I have linked to the way Critical Race Theory-based training is implemented is similar to how Applied Behavoiral Analysis therapies has been implemented. Both rely on the idea of who you are is wrong and correction involves constantly being made uncomfortable because you need to think about how your behavior or thinking is wrong. This is a horrible thing to do to children. At least with ABA the child gets rewards.
Isn't being told to get rid of their whiteness not much different than when people from hyphenated-American communities get told to get rid of whatever is hyphenated?
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
ASPartOfMe
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20 May 2021, 7:55 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So when today's children are grown up do you think their CRT training will have made them more tolerant, enlightened and better people in the future? Or will it stoke animosity and resentment among all groups?
Being told the bad parts of American history or your group will make people feel bad, angry etc. But it is necessary. CRT posits that you must scrutinize action and thought for evidence of privilege and racism. It posits you must get rid of your "whiteness". If you by definition racist because of your white privilege getting rid of your racism is impossible. That is going to make most people taught this at such young ages either dangerous anti-authority bigots or make them compliant, fearful sheep with dangourously bad self-esteem.
As I have linked to the way Critical Race Theory-based training is implemented is similar to how Applied Behavoiral Analysis therapies has been implemented. Both rely on the idea of who you are is wrong and correction involves constantly being made uncomfortable because you need to think about how your behavior or thinking is wrong. This is a horrible thing to do to children. At least with ABA the child gets rewards.
Isn't being told to get rid of their whiteness not much different than when people from hyphenated-American communities get told to get rid of whatever is hyphenated?
It is the same.
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 8:08 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So when today's children are grown up do you think their CRT training will have made them more tolerant, enlightened and better people in the future? Or will it stoke animosity and resentment among all groups?
Being told the bad parts of American history or your group will make people feel bad, angry etc. But it is necessary. CRT posits that you must scrutinize action and thought for evidence of privilege and racism. It posits you must get rid of your "whiteness". If you by definition racist because of your white privilege getting rid of your racism is impossible. That is going to make most people taught this at such young ages either dangerous anti-authority bigots or make them compliant, fearful sheep with dangourously bad self-esteem.
As I have linked to the way Critical Race Theory-based training is implemented is similar to how Applied Behavoiral Analysis therapies has been implemented. Both rely on the idea of who you are is wrong and correction involves constantly being made uncomfortable because you need to think about how your behavior or thinking is wrong. This is a horrible thing to do to children. At least with ABA the child gets rewards.
Isn't being told to get rid of their whiteness not much different than when people from hyphenated-American communities get told to get rid of whatever is hyphenated?
It is the same.
It's very similar, with one important distinction.
There's entire groups of people that the lose the hyphen crowd will never allow to fully integrate so the goal of the argument is really just to invalidate their concerns.
The check your whiteness crowd are usually pretty happy to have white allies even if they sometimes are skeptical of letting those allies dominate the conversation.
The latter seem much more willing to allow people to assimilate into their idea of who is part of the nation whereas the former are often open with their hostility towards the idea of allowing certain people to participate fully in their nation. That's why the former's sense of nationalism is often indistinguishable from that of white nationalists; whereas I've never encountered someone trying to insist that white Americans couldn't be real Americans.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
20 May 2021, 10:26 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I have family who are black and Hispanic.
Your black family members have never been pulled over for being black?
Your Hispanic family members never hear racist slander?
Do I just live in a bad area?
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You would probably be shocked if you knew how many "minorities" do not share your "progressive" values.
I don't know what that means.
Is "people should stop being so racist" a "progressive value"?
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20 May 2021, 11:11 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish the KKK would be blown to smithereens.
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
White privilege is kind of like a sleeping power that is invoked or activated in certain circumstances. The classic one is where a white employer has two applicants with nearly exactly the same qualifications but one is white, they will (in all probability) choose the white applicant.
So in a country like Kenya would there be "Black Privilege" or "Yellow Privilege" in South Korea? Is privilege determined by the majority population? If so should CRT be amended accordingly and exported?
There's a considerable difference between indigenous/native majority privilege and contrived privilege based on a person's phenotype.
So which one describes white privilege in Europe? It's kinda both, but to some extent it can be a problem either way. Should Asian Africans (East and South Asian diaspora in Africa) be denied opportunities in lands they've lived in for several generations because of their ancestry?
There's a few nuances you might want to consider. East Asians in Africa are relatively privileged already, 99% of the time they are choosing to go to a country far poorer than their own to work for an Asian owned company OR as a professional hired by a African owned company. I am sure the poor people in a slum in Bombay or Soweto would wonder what privilege they have over a Japanese or taiwanese expat getting chauffeured from their luxury hotel suite to a skyscraper in the CBD.
Last edited by cyberdad on 21 May 2021, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sweetleaf
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20 May 2021, 11:57 pm
Or you just realize maybe you did have more privilege, and move on do what you can to fight for equality. Why should I be offended about white privilege? it doesn't mean 'who I am is wrong' it means people have suffered more disadvantages than me due to race...and I should at least be aware. Also I think a lot more people could use to be made 'uncomfortable' to think things through. Everyone should think about their behavior and thinking and the whys of things even when it is hard.
That said if anything what I learned growing up was a lot of white patting themselves on the back of how the civil rights happened and there were no more issues for black people anymore bla bla bla. When kinda seems like there is still a ways to go.
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funeralxempire
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21 May 2021, 1:59 am
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wish the KKK would be blown to smithereens.
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
I don't believe white people are necessarily the recipients of "white privilege." I find "white privilege" to be an academic term.
The only time I feel "privileged" is when I can use a bathroom in a restaurant. I find this is frequently denied to nonwhite folks.
In my neighborhood, I am in the "minority."
White privilege is kind of like a sleeping power that is invoked or activated in certain circumstances. The classic one is where a white employer has two applicants with nearly exactly the same qualifications but one is white, they will (in all probability) choose the white applicant.
So in a country like Kenya would there be "Black Privilege" or "Yellow Privilege" in South Korea? Is privilege determined by the majority population? If so should CRT be amended accordingly and exported?
There's a considerable difference between indigenous/native majority privilege and contrived privilege based on a person's phenotype.
So which one describes white privilege in Europe? It's kinda both, but to some extent it can be a problem either way. Should Asian Africans (East and South Asian diaspora in Africa) be denied opportunities in lands they've lived in for several generations because of their ancestry?
There's a few nuances you might want to consider. East Asians in Africa are relatively privileged already, 99% of the time they are choosing to go to a country far poorer than their own to work for an Asian owned company OR as a professional hired by a African owned company. I am sure the poor people in a slum in Bombay or Soweto would wonder what privilege they have over a Japanese or taiwanese expat getting chauffeured from their luxury hotel suite to a skyscraper in the CBD.
For what's it's worth I'm not describing people who recently arrived, I specified people who have lived there for generations, often as a result of the British Empire.
I don't disagree that recent arrivals might match the profile you're describing, but Taiwan literally didn't exist as a country when the people I was describing arrived. I'm describing the same Asians Idi Amin targeted.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
21 May 2021, 3:28 am
funeralxempire wrote:
I was describing arrived. I'm describing the same Asians Idi Amin targeted.
The Indians in Uganda were a "model minority" who drew the ire of the local Ugandans. Idi Amin was merely tapping into existing resentment. This is no different to Julius Malema tapping into resentment from indigenous South Africans against Indians or by poor African Americans sick of arrogant Koreans opening convenience stores in the neighborhoods getting rich from their welfare food stamps or greedy two faced Arabs opening liquor stores who pray to allah 5 times a day while selling alcohol to poor black people.
I am no way justifying the sentiment (my wife's family suffered discrimination as Indians living in Malaysia) but the sentiment from the locals against "model minorities" is not the same as observable privilege white Americans have over blacks, hispanics or native Americans.
21 May 2021, 7:51 am
SabbraCadabra wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
I have family who are black and Hispanic.
Your black family members have never been pulled over for being black?
Your Hispanic family members never hear racist slander?
Do I just live in a bad area?
Mr Reynholm wrote:
You would probably be shocked if you knew how many "minorities" do not share your "progressive" values.
I don't know what that means.
Is "people should stop being so racist" a "progressive value"?
"Progressive Anti-Racist" ideology is about revenge not equality.
21 May 2021, 8:13 am
Even if there is such a thing as "White Privilege", So What?
No human society/civilization on Earth has ever been perfect. People of all races have survived and thrived.
Once white privilege has been engineered out of white people, will no other race have "privilege"?
It seems that the entire thing is more about revenge than equality.
funeralxempire
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21 May 2021, 10:48 am
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I was describing arrived. I'm describing the same Asians Idi Amin targeted.
The Indians in Uganda were a "model minority" who drew the ire of the local Ugandans. Idi Amin was merely tapping into existing resentment. This is no different to Julius Malema tapping into resentment from indigenous South Africans against Indians or by poor African Americans sick of arrogant Koreans opening convenience stores in the neighborhoods getting rich from their welfare food stamps or greedy two faced Arabs opening liquor stores who pray to allah 5 times a day while selling alcohol to poor black people.
I am no way justifying the sentiment (my wife's family suffered discrimination as Indians living in Malaysia) but the sentiment from the locals against "model minorities" is not the same as observable privilege white Americans have over blacks, hispanics or native Americans.
It typically isn't, but it somewhat depends on local circumstances. If the majority group holds most of the positions of power a similar privilege structure is likely to emerge simply as a result of people within that group consistently placing their interests (and their relatives interests) ahead of people who aren't part of the group.
Pointing to how resentment already existed doesn't really change what I'm describing, that sort of ethno-nationalism was likely to lead to a system where only citizens of some backgrounds were viewed as fully part of the society and with the society rigged to favour their interests above other peoples.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
21 May 2021, 11:26 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Pointing to how resentment already existed doesn't really change what I'm describing, that sort of ethno-nationalism was likely to lead to a system where only citizens of some backgrounds were viewed as fully part of the society and with the society rigged to favour their interests above other peoples.
Yes(no arguments about ethno-nationalism (I'm not a fan of that either) but it ain't the same dynamics of privilege.
You missed the economic power differential that feeds into privilege. Indian, Korean or Arab storekeepers have more economic power than the people they sell to. Secondly in the power differential that exists in the US the police protect the wealthy shop-owners and take their side in disputes involving blacks who are profiled as criminals.
The police power differential may not exactly be the same in a Soweto slum but shop keepers can pay the police, poor slum dwellers can't.
21 May 2021, 11:30 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Even if there is such a thing as "White Privilege", So What?
No human society/civilization on Earth has ever been perfect. People of all races have survived and thrived.
Once white privilege has been engineered out of white people, will no other race have "privilege"?
It seems that the entire thing is more about revenge than equality.
No human society/civilization on Earth has ever been perfect. People of all races have survived and thrived.
Once white privilege has been engineered out of white people, will no other race have "privilege"?
It seems that the entire thing is more about revenge than equality.
Acknowledging it exists is a start. But average folk like you or I aren't obliged to fix it. That's between the "oppressed" and the government who is technically supposed to be representing them as fellow constituents. That's how democracy works. It ain't rocket science and the right wingers bemoaning the end of "white" civilisation are masquerading/hiding their self-evident implicit bias.
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