I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist

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Since thats how every debate on abortion always gets framed, as one of sexist men telling women what to do with their body. Except that is such a massive straw man of the abortion debate its actually sick and a perverse bastardization of logic to turn an otherwise complex debate into a human rights struggle between virtuous feminists and dastardly religious fundamentalist misogynists. I was looking at the forum on abortion in the PPR from a while back, and the amount of people who were pulling the sexist and bigot ad hominems and straw man was ridiculous. Seriously, it's one to not agree with a side, but completely caricaturing another side with broad brushes and simplistic typecasting is toxic and doesn't further any constructive discussion

The real issue in the abortion debate is when does life begin. That is the literally the bread and butter of this debate. Many women, heck even feminists, are against abortion, some conditionally, because they genuinely believe that life starts at certain stages of pregnancy, some upon immediate conception, and that its unethical to terminate a life. Others think otherwise.

Some say that abortion is morally wrong but others should have a choice if they want to pursue it. Others think its not wrong. Others think its wrong under some circumstances, right in others.

A very complicated and nuanced debate with multiple views and interesting arguments getting reduced to "hurr hurr hurr, men want to control women's bodies" is just idiotic. Calling men who are against abortion sexist is itself sexist; why does being a man disqualify someone from caring for another human life? Bringing up the supposed hypocrisy of the Republican Party's supposed lack of care for lives once they're born because of policies that cut social welfare is still not right given that to those Republicans their policies are pro life, just in a complicated and even at times convoluted way; in the end of the day no Republican, however depraved, is against just wantonly killing life just for the lulz, and to say that is a straw man.

Im not even here to argue for or against abortion; im only arguing that claiming one side is just sexist and wants to control women is unfairly maligning and a cheap smear tactic that doesnt contribute to anything productive

It doesn't. It's just one of many tactics applied to shut down an argument rather than concede defeat.

It’s a matter of “control over one’s own body,” in many cases. A person’s right to do what she wants with her own body.

Actually, I don’t know any person who is “for” abortion. Everyone worth their salt is “against” abortion.

Both pro-life and pro-choice people are preeminently “against” abortion.

Because the burden of carrying a pregnancy isn't equally distributed when men try to impose limitations on how women deal with that process they're essentially denying those women the right to make the best decision for themselves.

Are women sexist if they're against abortion?

The act of making abortion illegal is inherently sexist, so yes a woman who supports anti-choice government policies is supporting something that's inherently sexist.

How others might label that individual isn't really my concern.

People can be morally opposed to abortion all they like, that's not really important to me and not something I'd argue is particularly sexist.

Making the choice for other people by making it illegal or nearly impossible to access is what's important to me. Using the state to prevent others from making their choice is a problem.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 20 May 2021, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But if that decision of their body ends up killing another human life, of course a religious person who upholds the sanctity of life would oppose abortion for non-sexist reasons

The outcomes associated with banning access to abortion services are inherently sexist no matter what your motivations are.

Who's talking about banning abortion?

I'm clarifying that I'm not suggesting being morally uncomfortable with abortion is sexist, only that trying to use the state to make that decision for others is.

I didn't mean "if women want to ban abortion".

I meant, what if a woman doesn't believe in abortion for themselves, for whatever reason, but they still believe other women should have the right to make their own decision?

Isn't it feminist for a woman to make up her own mind, whether yes or no, and to also support the rights of other women?

Is it a coincidence that the groups most adamantly opposed to abortion - Evangelical Christians and the Catholic Church - are also opposed to female ordination as priests?

Correlation does not prove causation, but it could be cause for consideration...

I don't think women need to be part of a group to have an opinion on this topic. Whether a woman is religious or not, she usually is smart enough and insightful enough to make her own decisions about morality, her body, and her options. I'm not saying that women (and men) aren't sometimes influenced by their culture, but most have an ability for independent thought. Pro-Choice means that sometimes women will actually choose no. Their ability to make a choice doesn't need to be blamed on the church.

Last edited by IsabellaLinton on 20 May 2021, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I clarified my opinion because I only really have opinions on whether or not it should be legal. Who am I to tell people how to feel about this matter? I can't ever find myself in that situation so I can't know how I'd deal (even if I'm pretty sure). My opinions are entirely rooted in the argument over interfering with access, not how people personally feel because people's feelings can't impose outcomes on others.

The freedom to make that choice for one's self is obviously aligned with feminist ideas, but it could also just be due internalized misogyny (if one views bearing children as a duty rather than a choice). It would come down to the individual, not everyone who opposes it is a free-thinker, that doesn't mean there aren't free-thinkers who arrive at those same conclusions. Since we're only discussing hypotheticals, not describing actual examples it could have lots of motives and I can't speculate about any individual without having some body of documented opinions to reference.

100%. Me too. I don't believe I have the right to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't decide. Just because I'm a woman who wouldn't abort, it doesn't mean that I get the ultimate say for all other women. I believe in choice just like you do.



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Agreed.

I do support fathers' rights, though. It must be terribly difficult for fathers without a voice. By that I mean the good men who care and have opinions and broken hearts. I would never be sexist enough to say that their feelings don't matter at all because of their biology. I know it's complicated and ultimately the decision has to be left to the mother for obvious reasons, but I wish there was a way everyone could have their rights supported. Until then all we can do is support women through these incredibly difficult choices.

There's some factors that are inherently unequal in it. Women always bear the burden of carrying, which grants them certain inherent rights based on interests/investments that they're obliged to make (which is to say ultimately the one carrying gets to make the decision of if they intend on continuing); men bear the burden of not carrying, which basically means not being entitled to a final say no matter what their preference is or how badly not having their preferences obliged hurts them.

It's not fair but there isn't a way to make this fair, it seems you and I default to pretty similar positions even if the arguments and framing don't start the same.