New Restrictions on Abortion Have Real World Consequences
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,472
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
29 May 2021, 6:28 am
Misslizard wrote:
There are scientific and philosophical principals that support a woman’s right to choose.
https://srh.bmj.com/content/39/1/51
https://srh.bmj.com/content/39/1/51
This just rehashes the same false principles of viability, bodily autonomy and "babies aren't human" invented solely to allow abortion. It's called dehumanisation.
Misslizard wrote:
A zygote can’t survive outside the womb and a late term baby can.That is why I don’t believe in late term unless there is a medical reason.
Covered in previous posts. You can't just repeat the same points, ignore pointed questions and pretend I haven't addressed them. That's what people who are losing arguments do.
Misslizard wrote:
You ignore the deaths of thousands of women.You are stepping around that issue.Perhaps you think of women as disposable wombs.
I don't ignore them, the numbers (of women seeking to do evil) just don't stack up to much compared to the Baby Holocaust.
Misslizard wrote:
Murder is legal and regulated , it’s called capital punishment and warfare.
The Bible does cover video piracy, it’s called theft.
The Bible does cover video piracy, it’s called theft.
Missed the point of both of those didn't you.
- That laws are broken and punishments must be enforced is not a good argument to do away with a law.
- The Bible does cover abortion, it's called murder.
Misslizard wrote:
George Floyd was murdered.I have no idea where you are going with supporting petty criminals and adoption.
Keeping such people around?Sounds sort of racist to me.He didn’t deserve to die over a fake twenty.No one does.
Keeping such people around?Sounds sort of racist to me.He didn’t deserve to die over a fake twenty.No one does.
You've just voiced my own argument against abortion and against the false shrieks about the costs of all the unwanted children, and you can't even see it.
Misslizard wrote:
Sure women can carry a baby to term and offer it up for adoption.The problem is people don’t want to adopt crack or meth babies.The demand is for healthy white babies ,not sick babies of color.
Still better than killing them.
Misslizard wrote:
In poverty stricken countries children starve to death because of large families.
It’s better to have a few children and be able to support them instead of burying half of them.
It’s better to have a few children and be able to support them instead of burying half of them.
It is. But pre-emptively killing unwanted children is not the answer.
Misslizard wrote:
Birth control and sterilization should be free and available for all.That would cut down on the need for abortions.
Preventing pregnancy is fine by me.
Misslizard wrote:
I see abortion as a necessary evil,rape, incest,more kids than one can feed, medical reasons , the age of the mother ( some girls start their periods early,as in eleven).
I view it as an evil that can and should be legally restricted for 99% of cases.
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Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
29 May 2021, 7:49 am
Mikah wrote:
I view it as an evil that can and should be legally restricted for 99% of cases.
I'm curious to know what conditions need to be filled in order to be part of that remaining 1% that makes you see abortion as allowable. Is it the cases where the pregnant woman will die for sure if she lets the pregnancy go on?
29 May 2021, 8:17 am
Ahem, 'The Trademark Bible' Isn't Exactly A Best Book to Uphold Murdering Humans
Is Not A Preferred Method of Solving Problems; The Old Testament Doesn't
Wait for a Pregnancy Test; it Kills All Birds With Stones it Doesn't Agree With
In Terms of Human Relative Morality That is Always in Flux; There is Nothing
You Will Win In A Debate With Relative Morality, Other than Opinions That Change With
Leaves That Fall to The
Ground And
Rot and
Do Not Produce Good Fruit;
See what i Just Did There;
Anyone May Write A Bible;
Anyone May Change Morality;
Anyone With Stones May Kill Another Human Being...
And Whatever Pregnancy Results from Adulterous Copulation in the Old Bible...
The Golden Rule Is Not Enough When Everyone In the Community Agrees,
Throw A Rock When Ya Got an Issue;
There Was A Lot of Road
Rage
in
'Those Days' too...
Yes Anyone With A Gun May Shoot
Someone Unless They Don't Have one...
Just Like A Country Full of 'Rocks' Hmm...
Do No Harm; Do the Least Harm Possible;
Don't Be The Infant Struggling Suffering in Misery to Breathe in A 'Gehenna Dumpster'
Suffocating to Death; There Are Better Ways to Die than that much earlier as a Zygote...
Obviously, With Human Beings, When it comes to Morality, Anything Goes in Human Nightmares come to Life...
i suppose We Could Ask Trademark Jesus About it; Yet He Was Illiterate And So Were His Friends Like all the other
'Mutt
Mix'
Folks Then...
Nothing Left But Second Hand God's...
The Old Bible Is A Sick, Twisted, And Disgusting Book;
It's Only A Good Record Book For How Evil Human Beings
Are Capable of Being to Each Other; Other Than That A 'Good Canceling'
Might Be in the Moral Authority Order of Today Still Coming; Yeah, Yeah, There
are a Few Golden Rule Treasures; Yet It always Turns Out 'Trump' By The End of the Book...
God Bless Church And State Separation HeaR; Otherwise 'You' Could Be A Couple of Lesbians
In Saudi Arabia Buried to Your Chest And Stoned to Death So You Cannot Cover Your Eyes
The Evil Nightmares
of Human
Potential
Continues in
Pandemics oF iGnorance
(Fig Tree Reference/Naked Truth)
That Harm, Rape, Maim
And Kill Driving Species
To Eternal Extinction NoW
iN MoraLiTy Hell WHere
Any Torture Goes
As The
Fires
Burn
And
Devils Still Breathe...
Calling Themselves Gods...
"Exodus 31:15
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
“If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Leviticus 20:10
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor,
both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:12
If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death;
they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them."
Bottom Lines, 'You' Will Not Win A Debate When 'Relative Morality' Is the Issue at Hand...
It's Why If You Want an Endless Diversion Get in A So-Called Debate About Abortion or
Understand
The Reality
of Relative Moral Authority
And Just Have Fun With It Now... Uploading my SoUL For Real iN FlesH And Blood Words
i've Worked Outside of the Protestant Work Ethic Without Pay Writing Online For the Last 3838
Consecutive Days; i LiVE iN the United States Today And Don't Even Need to Get Stoned to Do It, Hehe.
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
29 May 2021, 10:03 am
Fireblossom wrote:
Mikah wrote:
I view it as an evil that can and should be legally restricted for 99% of cases.
I'm curious to know what conditions need to be filled in order to be part of that remaining 1% that makes you see abortion as allowable. Is it the cases where the pregnant woman will die for sure if she lets the pregnancy go on?
More or less, not "die for sure" but when there is a level of physical risk to the mother far beyond what is normal. When two lives are genuinely in the balance, you have to chose which to try to save. I'd also tolerate legal exceptions for rape, incest etc, the extreme 0.1% examples that are always brought up, while recognising that they are immoral.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
29 May 2021, 10:38 am
You are incorrect about the Bible, if you read Exodus you would have comprehended that the loss of the baby( of any term) resulted in a fine ,but the loss of the mother’s life was considered murder.You are conveniently ignoring that.
The Bible also allows for murder, Old Testament is full of it.Jael drove a tent spike through a man’s head while he was sleeping.
I never said that laws should be done away with.
George Floyd did not have an umbilical cord attached to him.What is your point about that? Elaborate please.And also what you meant by “ such people”.Black people?
Just because you don’t agree with a philosophical principal doesn’t make it wrong, it just means you don’t agree with it.
What have I not answered ?
And what about the morning after pill?Do you also consider that murder?
I don’t see this as an argument but a debate.It’s also your opinion that you are the winner.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
29 May 2021, 11:17 am
King James Bible: Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Yeah, THAT GOD Was All Cool About Killing Little Ones in the Old Testament As Long As They Were From Babylon...
THAT MUCH Hasn't Changed Among Faux God's Promoting Tribal Interests; No Different Than 'The Big Orange Trump'...
Oh Heaven Forbid
If Women Become
Free With Their
'Evil' Reproductive
Freedoms Making
Men Into The 'Incels'
They Naturally May Come to Be...
Not Something All Men Worry About...
Except For Folks Like 'Matt Gaetz' Who
Are 'Small Men' Who May Only Be Able to Purchase 'It'...
And That Is Precisely What Taking Women's Reproductive Freedoms Away Is Institutional
Approved Forced Rape And Or Prostitution; Oldest Profession of Toxic Patriarchies Globe Wide Still 'Sinning'
Calling
Itself
Religion And Other God's
to Subjugate And Control Natural Freedoms...
Clue: "Jeanies" Are Out of 'the Bottles' And
They Ain't Coming Back to Grant 'Three Wishes'...
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
29 May 2021, 3:31 pm
uncommondenominator wrote:
It's funny how babies should be protected IN the womb, but once they LEAVE the womb, they can't be bothered. It's also funny how "protecting babies" seems to mostly just mean force women to have them, and stops there. Food and clothes for the baby? Nope, mom's job. Healthcare for mom while she carries the ever-so-important baby? Nope, also mom's job. Financial support to help take care of the baby? Still mom's job. So basically "protecting babies" is forcing women to have them, and then buggering off for a beer.
"Gee, I'm sorry you were raped. But ALL life is sacred, which is why you should be literally painfully and inconveniently reminded about your rape for the next 9 months of pregnancy, and 18 years of child raising. What? NO, you won't get any help! If you weren't prepared to have a kid, you should have thought about that before you got raped. It's YOUR kid, YOUR responsibility! And I DID help! I made you have the kid! MY job is done!"
It's also weird how "laws don't stop people from getting drugs", and "laws don't stop people from getting guns", but somehow laws can TOTALLY stop women from getting abortions.
And, how gun restrictions can save lives, but, thats evil cos MUH FREEDUMZ! - but when it comes to abortions it's "to hell with your FREEDOM, there's LIVES at stake!"
And, how if they say you're an unfit parent, they take your kid, but if you want an abortion, they make you have and keep the kid.
If the only thing you do to "protect" kids - born or unborn - is force the woman to have and raise the kid, you can stop patting yourself on the back any time.
Not only is this leverage against women, it's leverage against POOR women - cos people with money just catch a flight to a country that does allow abortions. Tell everyone you went to thailand for a "wellness cleanse".
It just seems weird, to be so vehemently obsessed with making sure the kid is born - because all life is sacred! - but not actually HELP in any way, and not really give a damn once it IS born. It's almost as if the only REALLY important part is the make-women-do-something part.
Do you donate to single-mother charities?
"No."
Do you adopt children that can't be taken care of?
"No."
Do you volunteer at orphanages?
"No."
Do you offer daycare to single mothers or low income familes?
"No."
Do you support free prenatal medical care or post natal child care?
"No."
Then what DO you do?
"Shame other people into conforming to my beliefs, and expect the government to punish them if they don't."
Apparently, although "all lives matter", some lives matter more than others. The lump of cells that may one day become a child apparently matters more than the 13 year old that already IS a child.
"Gee, I'm sorry you were raped. But ALL life is sacred, which is why you should be literally painfully and inconveniently reminded about your rape for the next 9 months of pregnancy, and 18 years of child raising. What? NO, you won't get any help! If you weren't prepared to have a kid, you should have thought about that before you got raped. It's YOUR kid, YOUR responsibility! And I DID help! I made you have the kid! MY job is done!"
It's also weird how "laws don't stop people from getting drugs", and "laws don't stop people from getting guns", but somehow laws can TOTALLY stop women from getting abortions.
And, how gun restrictions can save lives, but, thats evil cos MUH FREEDUMZ! - but when it comes to abortions it's "to hell with your FREEDOM, there's LIVES at stake!"
And, how if they say you're an unfit parent, they take your kid, but if you want an abortion, they make you have and keep the kid.
If the only thing you do to "protect" kids - born or unborn - is force the woman to have and raise the kid, you can stop patting yourself on the back any time.
Not only is this leverage against women, it's leverage against POOR women - cos people with money just catch a flight to a country that does allow abortions. Tell everyone you went to thailand for a "wellness cleanse".
It just seems weird, to be so vehemently obsessed with making sure the kid is born - because all life is sacred! - but not actually HELP in any way, and not really give a damn once it IS born. It's almost as if the only REALLY important part is the make-women-do-something part.
Do you donate to single-mother charities?
"No."
Do you adopt children that can't be taken care of?
"No."
Do you volunteer at orphanages?
"No."
Do you offer daycare to single mothers or low income familes?
"No."
Do you support free prenatal medical care or post natal child care?
"No."
Then what DO you do?
"Shame other people into conforming to my beliefs, and expect the government to punish them if they don't."
Apparently, although "all lives matter", some lives matter more than others. The lump of cells that may one day become a child apparently matters more than the 13 year old that already IS a child.
To quote George Carlin: "If you're pre-born, you're okay. If you're pre-school, you're f_cked."
Forced-birthers don't give a crap about babies. It's all about punishing women.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."
-XFG (no longer a moderator)
29 May 2021, 5:55 pm
Misslizard wrote:
You are incorrect about the Bible, if you read Exodus you would have comprehended that the loss of the baby( of any term) resulted in a fine ,but the loss of the mother’s life was considered murder.You are conveniently ignoring that.
The Bible also allows for murder, Old Testament is full of it.Jael drove a tent spike through a man’s head while he was sleeping.
The Bible also allows for murder, Old Testament is full of it.Jael drove a tent spike through a man’s head while he was sleeping.
You brought the Bible into the conversation as follows, even though I made no religious argument:
From a religious point of view the Bible says nothing against abortion.The life of the mother is another thing.
To which I responded:
The Bible doesn't say anything specifically about video piracy either, sometimes we have to use our heads.
You, being selectively literal or pretending to be unable to read:
The Bible does cover video piracy, it’s called theft.
Me, responding in kind to the above pretend stupidity:
The Bible does cover abortion, it's called murder.
You, now completely changing your original argument regarding the Bible:
You are incorrect about the Bible, if you read Exodus you would have comprehended that the loss of the baby( of any term) resulted in a fine ,but the loss of the mother’s life was considered murder.You are conveniently ignoring that.
The Bible also allows for murder, Old Testament is full of it.Jael drove a tent spike through a man’s head while he was sleeping.
So now you announce the Bible does make specific statements on killing the unborn and apparently regards it as an offence for which restitution must be made. Glad I didn't bring it up arguing in favour of legal abortion then.
Misslizard wrote:
I never said that laws should be done away with.
You did. You referenced the war on drugs and linked it with abortion. Your argument, though not put quite so directly is that because you believe laws against drugs and abortion are ineffective and a danger to the criminals, that we should legalise drugs and abortion (where it is not legal, or that it should remain legal where it is).
You won’t stop abortion, you just send it underground.How many young women will die because of infection or complications from a back ally abortion?
You won’t stop it, just like prohibition didn’t work and neither did the war on drugs.
If you read the Amnesty article you would have seen how many illegal abortions are preformed and how many women die from them.It’s been around forever.No matter how much you want it to not be, it will.
My response to this is one of the questions you didn't answer:
Laws don't entirely prevent theft either and sometimes thieves die while carrying out their crimes. Is that an argument to legalise?
Misslizard wrote:
George Floyd did not have an umbilical cord attached to him.
Because the presence of an umbilical cord means it's fine to kill whatever it is attached to?
Quote:
What is your point about that? Elaborate please.
For some reason when it comes to unborn children, those who want to stop the frivolous and unjust killing are questioned about their willingness to take care of the hypothetical saved victims. This is not true of other similar debates.
Misslizard wrote:
And also what you meant by “ such people”.Black people?
If it helps you understand what you sound like when talking about the unborn, Frau Lizard, understand it in the least generous way.
Misslizard wrote:
Just because you don’t agree with a philosophical principal doesn’t make it wrong, it just means you don’t agree with it.
What I said was they were invented for abortion, that they have no basis in science or philosophy. For example, viability as proof-of-life or personhood, or whatever way it is used by proponents of abortion. It is not some principle that pushed its way in from from the biological sciences. It has only ever applied to a particular group of inconvenient humans that we want to kill.
Misslizard wrote:
What have I not answered ?
Let's start with the question above that I have asked more than one way:
Laws don't entirely prevent theft either and sometimes thieves die while carrying out their crimes. Is that an argument to legalise?
Misslizard wrote:
And what about the morning after pill?Do you also consider that murder?
From my understanding of how that pill works, yes. It is an abortion pill, not a contraceptive.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
29 May 2021, 6:44 pm
It’s not considered murder in the Bible.Murder was punishable by death NOT restitution.Thus a fetus was not considered a human being.Just damaged property.Like a broken pot.I did not change my statement.
Not all laws are just,like the war on weed.I don’t think abortion is a crime, you do. Since it’s legal in some areas, it’s not a crime there.Theft is a crime pretty much everywhere and I have no problem with people being punished within reason.Not chopping a hand off.If a thief gets eaten by a Doberman trying to steal, then it’s on the them.They had a choice.Don’t climb the fence where the Dobie is .People die walking across the street and falling in a manhole.Should manholes be illegal?
It’s ok to pull the plug on a person in a coma with no brain activity.The embryo does not have brain activity till around 24 weeks ,so no different.
That umbilical cord is attached to the woman’s body so yeah it’s ok to terminate.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irisht ... 3fmode=amp
Yea you should adopt if you really care.
People who have extra food donate it to food rooms, same principle.Helping those less fortunate.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
29 May 2021, 8:07 pm
Misslizard wrote:
It’s not considered murder in the Bible.Murder was punishable by death NOT restitution.Thus a fetus was not considered a human being.Just damaged property.Like a broken pot.I did not change my statement.
Your statements on the Bible directly contradicted each other. Now you are trying to twist the Bible into a pro-abortion stance. I thought that was the job of the pro-life crowd. I do not need arguments from the Bible to hold my position.
Misslizard wrote:
Not all laws are just,like the war on weed.I don’t think abortion is a crime, you do. Since it’s legal in some areas, it’s not a crime there.Theft is a crime pretty much everywhere and I have no problem with people being punished within reason.
I think we're actually getting somewhere. You have partly recognised the faults with your argument about effectiveness of the law being no good reason to remove the law. At least you understand it as regards theft. You actually believe anti-abortion law is unjust and are just using this non-argument because it suits you.
Misslizard wrote:
If a thief gets eaten by a Doberman trying to steal, then it’s on the them.They had a choice.Don’t climb the fence where the Dobie is .
Indeed, and if a women dies trying to kill her child, it's on them. They had a choice.
Misslizard wrote:
People die walking across the street and falling in a manhole.Should manholes be illegal?
Did you type this with a straight face?
Misslizard wrote:
It’s ok to pull the plug on a person in a coma with no brain activity.The embryo does not have brain activity till around 24 weeks ,so no different.
Here we are getting to the meat of the argument. The nature of the unborn. In the coma scenario, you pull the plug when you are certain there can be no recovery. This is not the case for the unborn without brain activity. If you do not interfere with the pregnancy, that baby will gain brain activity and eventually every other aspect of humanity. You wouldn't pull the plug on a coma patient if you had every reason to believe brain activity would return in a month or so.
Misslizard wrote:
That umbilical cord is attached to the woman’s body so yeah it’s ok to terminate.
Last I checked the umbilical is still attached after 24 weeks. This is another question of mine you did not answer, why if you believe what you say you believe, do you not support abortion right up to the due date? You are inconsistent. If the mother has the eternal right of bodily autonomy and if the baby is attached by the umbilical even after they have exited the womb, surely that conclusion follows?
Misslizard wrote:
Yea you should adopt if you really care.
People who have extra food donate it to food rooms, same principle.Helping those less fortunate.
People who have extra food donate it to food rooms, same principle.Helping those less fortunate.
I think we've done this to death now.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
29 May 2021, 8:34 pm
Some women didn’t have a choice in getting pregnant either.Or the right to choose a safe clean clinic instead of a coat hanger.
I don’t support late term abortion because the fetus can survive outside the womb at that stage.It also has a fully developed brain unlike a embryo.
The placenta detaches after birth and the cord is no longer attached to the mother.It no longer needs the mother.
I didn’t twist what the Bible said.If the mother dies it’s murder, if the fetus dies it’s not.
If there is no brain activity then there is no consciousness.An apple blossom has the potential to be a fruit, but at that stage it’s just a flower and not an apple.
You can’t call a blossom a fruit and an embryo is not a human being.It’s a cluster of cells.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
29 May 2021, 8:50 pm
Misslizard wrote:
Some women didn’t have a choice in getting pregnant either.
This is not an excuse to make your own bad choice later. You wouldn't accept it as an argument from a women who had killed her 3 year old.
Misslizard wrote:
I don’t support late term abortion because the fetus can survive outside the womb at that stage.It also has a fully developed brain unlike a embryo.
The placenta detaches after birth and the cord is no longer attached to the mother.It no longer needs the mother.
The placenta detaches after birth and the cord is no longer attached to the mother.It no longer needs the mother.
You've dodged the question. Why do you deny women bodily autonomy after a certain date? Either it's a right and a principle or it's not.
Misslizard wrote:
If there is no brain activity then there is no consciousness.An apple blossom has the potential to be a fruit, but at that stage it’s just a flower and not an apple.You can’t call a blossom a fruit and an embryo is not a human being.It’s a cluster of cells.
Consciousness is not a requirement of being human. It's just an arbitrary distinction made so we can kill a certain group who we say lack it. It's dehumanisation, it's what humans do when they want to commit terrible crimes.
A seed is a tree in an early stage of its life cycle. A child is a human in an early stage of development. A fetus is a human in a very early stage of development.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
29 May 2021, 9:35 pm
A three year old isn’t a cluster of cells without brain function.( some parents might disagree after a long day)
I didn’t dodge the question.I answered it.
It has brain function then and can exist outside the womb.It is a viable human then.
It’s dehumanizing to women to think of us a just a womb and to rob us of our reproductive rights.We are more than an incubator.
Two cells, the sperm and ovum are not human.They are just cells.
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
30 May 2021, 6:36 am
Misslizard wrote:
A three year old isn’t a cluster of cells without brain function.( some parents might disagree after a long day)
...
Two cells, the sperm and ovum are not human.They are just cells.
...
It has brain function then and can exist outside the womb.It is a viable human then.
...
Two cells, the sperm and ovum are not human.They are just cells.
...
It has brain function then and can exist outside the womb.It is a viable human then.
You haven't actually refuted anything I have said on this, you are now just repeating the same arguments. To what end?
Misslizard wrote:
It’s dehumanizing to women to think of us a just a womb and to rob us of our reproductive rights.We are more than an incubator.
Clever sounding, but actually a false frame. Reproductive rights are about the choice of whether to get pregnant or not. Once conception occurs this is no longer relevant. It is wrong to call abortion a reproductive right, unless you would also apply that right to parents of children of any age, it's about terminating a life already in progress.
Misslizard wrote:
I didn’t dodge the question.I answered it.
I did you the courtesy of assuming you dodged it, if you really believe you have answered it then you haven't understood the question or the problems with your position.
_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!
30 May 2021, 9:48 am
And you are repeating the same old tired argument that all pro-lifers use.Life begins at conception.Not without a female host .Just think of all those fertilized ovums being destroyed at fertility banks? Are they human? They have no chance of survival without a female host.
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(17)30036-5/fulltext
I did answer it, you just don’t accept my answer or like it.So it must be wrong.
Considering that most here seem to be pro-choice ,you haven’t done a very good job of convincing them now have you?
You see reproductive rights as a choice to get pregnant or not.I don’t, I see them as a right to not be pregnant.Some women have no choice in the matter.
I don’t see the fetus as human, you do.
You haven’t really proved anything except that you come across as possibly a racist and a misogynist.
So we are at an impasse.
https://web.mit.edu/pro-choice/www/reasons.html
_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi
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