New Restrictions on Abortion Have Real World Consequences

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Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,596

27 Jun 2021, 12:40 pm

Does An Ant Understand the Construction of 'the Mound': No

Does A Human Understand the Construction of 'Nature': No

Surely Not

At

Parts View

Yet We Do Have Tools

To See Farther And A Real Intuitive Soul

Now To See Deeper Than 'Equation Deep'...

Humanity Will Never Be Reduced to Mere Measure Alone...
Truly A Crux of this Issue is Near Sighted Versus Far Sighted Soul More...

Yet Again That Goes Far Beyond Scientific or Logical Enquiry Matters of

Soul Are Feelings And Sensings Far Beyond What Any Equation or Logic Measures...

Not

Everyone

Colors Life More...

Others See Closer
to Black And White Paint By Numbers...

And It's True Understanding the Depth of

The Pain of Others Not An Aptitude All Feel/Deliver For Real...

In Other Words, This ISSUE IS A NO BRAINER FOR SOME; Where
Soul Comes to Play Deeper For Real... Where Compassion is Deeper

Than Near

Sighted

For REAL...

Only As Small

As A Mass of Cells

That Becomes More

Not All Acorns Become Trees

It's Nature's Way And Not All Folks See Nature's Way...

Humans Tend to Value The Abstract Constructs they
Create More Than A Reality of Life Breathing Now That's A Real
Problem Yet Just Another Part of Human Nature To Deal With Now (Culture)

A Democracy At Best Has Enough Voices to Drown Out Ignorance at Small Depth...

Not Perfect; Yet It's working Better Here in the United States Than Some other places at least...

And Fascinatingly

'This Thread'

Is A

Microcosm

Of Just That And This..

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Dvdz
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27 Jun 2021, 9:05 pm

Mikah wrote:

It is more likely to be correct, with a greater emphasis on consistency.

Complex, yet consistent > simple and inconsistent, but inconsistency often leads to complexity as attempts to patch up the holes of the sinking ship see an incomprehensible web of justifications and half-baked ideas welded onto the hull in an ad hoc fashion, so complexity itself can serve as a red flag as part of a more in depth analysis.

Since you yourself say it is only more likely to be correct, then surely there must be claims that are simple and consistent that are also wrong.

How are you judging between two simple and consistent claims?

Mikah
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28 Jun 2021, 3:58 am

Dvdz wrote:

That's a fairly rare occurrence, one side is usually noticeably more consistent. When it does happen, you usually find you were arguing about the wrong thing all along, your initial assumptions were incorrect and a different argument has to be settled elsewhere before the main topic can even be usefully broached.

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ezbzbfcg2
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28 Jun 2021, 4:06 am

If you're a pregnant woman and the idea of abortion horrifies you, then don't have one.

Otherwise, it's really no one else's business besides the pregnant woman.

Abortions will happen regardless of legality. Reality.

Dvdz
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28 Jun 2021, 5:58 am

Mikah wrote:

Is it possible for a position to be simple and more consistent but also wrong?

Mikah
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28 Jun 2021, 7:48 am

Dvdz wrote:

Is it possible for a position to be simple and more consistent but also wrong?

Yes. It's an indicator, not a guarantee.

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Dvdz
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28 Jun 2021, 9:25 am

Mikah wrote:

Yes. It's an indicator, not a guarantee.

Hmmm... How confident are you in your position? Confident enough to, say, vote to outlaw abortion if there was a referendum?

Mikah
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28 Jun 2021, 9:50 am

Dvdz wrote:

Hmmm... How confident are you in your position? Confident enough to, say, vote to outlaw abortion if there was a referendum?

Confident enough for that, yes, or any other means of outlawing it in the general case.

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Dvdz
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28 Jun 2021, 7:40 pm

Mikah wrote:

Confident enough for that, yes, or any other means of outlawing it in the general case.

I don't really get what your confidence is based on as you said that consistency is only an indicator and not a guarantee.

I mean, if you are wrong about human life beginning at conception then all the women who will die or will be harmed undergoing unsafe abortion will have suffered an injustice as they were not killing a human life. You must be pretty confident in your position to actually vote to outlaw abortion in a referendum, despite the possibility of you being wrong.

How are you so confident in your position?

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28 Jun 2021, 8:04 pm

Dvdz wrote:

I'm not really sure what you want from me. Confidence in an argument, indicators aside, comes mostly from repeatedly arguing and either successfully defending it or refining it appropriately.

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Dvdz
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29 Jun 2021, 4:35 am

Mikah wrote:

I'm not really sure what you want from me. Confidence in an argument, indicators aside, comes mostly from repeatedly arguing and either successfully defending it or refining it appropriately.

Ok, what I think you are saying is that your confidence is based on your experience successfully defending your argument. Is this correct?

If so, is it possible for someone to successfully defend an argument that is also wrong? Is it also possible for someone to think they have successfully defended an argument when a majority of onlookers would think otherwise?

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29 Jun 2021, 7:56 am

Dvdz wrote:

Ok, what I think you are saying is that your confidence is based on your experience successfully defending your argument. Is this correct?

Yes, mostly. Tone is difficult to discern over the internet, but you almost sound surprised.

Dvdz wrote:

If so, is it possible for someone to successfully defend an argument that is also wrong?

Yes. It's possible that his or her opposition does not have resources to refute an incorrect argument - be it lack of information, time, failure to understand the proposition correctly or failing to see the cracks in logic.

Dvdz wrote:

Is it also possible for someone to think they have successfully defended an argument when a majority of onlookers would think otherwise?

Yes, it is possible, though it is also possible and somewhat common that an argument has been defended successfully, even though the majority likes to think otherwise. Often the case when arguing against fashionable opinion.

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NobodyKnows
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29 Jun 2021, 2:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

NobodyKnows wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Even if one has a right to be provided with a bare minimum of food, no one is going to be forced to put their needs and interests on hold while providing forced labour to contribute towards that goal.

You can't pay for groceries or housing without bearing the cost of government aid programs (and other programs), so I think anyone who's lived somewhat independently has been compelled to work extra hours to support other people's basic needs. For most people that will add up to >30% of their working lives, or >80,000 hours.

I can't say I've ever viewed taxation as a violation of one's bodily autonomy.

Could you explain your position a little bit better?

Are you saying that forced pregnancy is a violation of autonomy but forced labor isn't? ...or that taxes are really just 'user fees?' ...or that the act of paying taxes (i.e. signing a form) isn't particularly violating, so we needn't worry about how the money was acquired?

XFilesGeek
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29 Jun 2021, 3:17 pm

Note:

I managed to twist my knee at work and aggravate an old running injury. I'm not currently in the correct headspace for debating socio-political issues, so I'm bowing out of this thread for the time being.

Didn't want people thinking I was just being rude.

Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion, Mikah. Hopefully, we can continue it in the future.

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29 Jun 2021, 3:56 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion, Mikah. Hopefully, we can continue it in the future.

o7 Until next time.

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Dvdz
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29 Jun 2021, 5:40 pm

Mikah wrote:

Dvdz wrote:

Ok, what I think you are saying is that your confidence is based on your experience successfully defending your argument. Is this correct?

Yes, mostly. Tone is difficult to discern over the internet, but you almost sound surprised.

Dvdz wrote:

If so, is it possible for someone to successfully defend an argument that is also wrong?

Dvdz wrote:

Is it also possible for someone to think they have successfully defended an argument when a majority of onlookers would think otherwise?

Perhaps the number of times one has successfully defended an argument is not a very reliable indicator of whether an argument is correct or not.

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