Quiet hands vs Manspreading vs Other controling things

Post Reply New Topic

Even though I am 41 years old, my mom still treats me like a little kid. No, my mom never told me "quiet hands" because I am not stimming on the first place. However, she did correct me about a bunch of other things I am doing (described below) which seems even more controling than "quiet hands". After all, in case of "quiet hands" what the kid is doing is "obviously" abnormal, while the things I am doing seem perfectly normal, so it seems like she has to be purposely looking in order to notice. Let me list some of those things:

1) I eat fast, and she keeps telling me to eat slow

2) When I eat one of my legs points outward "as if I am about to run" (which goes with eating fast) and she tells me to put both legs parallel so that they don't point like that

3) When I eat, my right hand is on the table (since I am using it) while my left hand is on my leg. She tells me to put both hands on the table

4) Sometimes I put a plate or a cup in such a way that the edge of it sticks out of the table, and she tells me to move it so that it is fully on the table so that it won't fall. I know for a fact that it won't fall but she isn't buying it

5) Similarly, sometimes the edge of my laptop sticks out of the table and she tells me to put it fully on the table so that it won't fall off. Even though I know for a fact it wouldn't fall: how can such a huge laptop possibly fall because of one small edge of it sticking out?

6) When I carry the laptop, I carry it by the screen, and she tells me to carry it by the base. She doesn't want me to touch the screen at all.

7) Sometimes when I study I have a bunch of stuff on the table (mostly textbooks and notebooks) and I put my laptop on top of it. She tells me to put my laptop on the table and NOT on the other stuff so that it won't fall, even though again I know it won't

8 ) She tells me to study outside and not inside because of the fresh air

9) There is a double door to the back yard. One door lets air through and the other door does not. She wants me to open the door that doesn't let air through, and close the one that does. She wants me to be remembering to do it instead of just doing it herself

10) She wants me to take garbage out instead of taking garbage out herself

11) I have scoliosis, but it dosen't bother me. My back is curly, yes, but I don't have any pain. Also its not "that" curly I believe, lots so my mom constantly reminds me to sit up straight

12) My mom insists on cleaning my ear wax.

13) My mom reminds me to tie my shoes and also controls how tight I tie them, she wants me to tie them in a certain way that they would be more tight

14) My mom doesn't want me to have many things in hands when I don't need it since I might drop it. For example, if I tie my shoes with the phone in hand she reminds me to put the phone down. Actually I find it more convenient to keep the phone in hand. If I hold it, I know for a fact that I don't drop it; if I put it down I might forget to take it. But my mom doesn't get it. She thinks I will drop it if it is in my hands which I know for a fact that I won't.

Now, I always thought of *all* of those behaviors as just her being controlling. But recently, by looking through the internet, I realized that 2 and 10 are the gender issues. The item 2 is about "manspreading" while the item 10 is a common pattern of women asking the men to take trash out. So I was windering: are any of the other issues fall in those lines? Are the other things I listed the common issues in female-male interaction among NT-s?

As far as item 2 is concerned, my mom was unaware that it is a gender issue (as was I). I only looked it up AFTER I had that discussion with her. Now, my mom isn't feminist (I think she looks down at feminists as well as other liberals). So if she knew that she was supporting the "feminist side" by telling me not to "manspread", she probably wouldn't be doing it. So could it be that there is some ingrained differences in male and female behavior that people might or might not politicize. So even if people don't politicize them, they look like a personality clash (like between me and my mom) while if they do politicize them then they become the issue of patriarchy vs feminism (which neither me nor my mom knew about).

But now let me ask you a very interesting question. Lets compare telling someone "quiet hands" (something my mom never had to do since I don't stim) versus telling someone to put their legs straight (item 2). The question is: which is worse? Now, depending on whether you politicize it or not, you are going to get two different answers:

a) If you don't politicize it, you would say that what my mom was doing is worse. After all, asking someone to always have their legs point at exactly the right direction is a lot more to ask than simply asking someone not to stim.

b) If you do politicize it, then you are going to say that "quiet hands" is worse. After all, most people on this board seem to be left wing. So telling a man not to manspread would be "feminist" thus "left wing" thus "in line with the politics of this message board". While telling someone "quiet hands" is discrimination against autistics hence against hte politics of this message board. Following this logic, the statement that "trying to stop manspread is not as bad as trying to stop a stim" would be an understatement. You might go as far as actually saying that stopping a manspread is a good thing

So what would be your actual take on it? Will you go with "a" or with "b"? And what if it turns out that autistic men are more likely to manspread than NT men? I mean thats possible since autistics are less aware of their surroundings. Will in this case you defend manspreading as an autistic behavior or will you be opposed to it as a male behavior?

I didn't bring up "quiet hands" to my mom, because she isn't looking up that stuff from the internet and probably wouldn't be happy to hear that I do. What I brought up to her, instead, is her own words with regards to left handed people. I remember, on many different occasions, my mom said that it is a bad idea to train left handed people to be right handed. She believes it would somehow interfere with their development or something. So when we had that conversation about my leg sticking out, I told her "didn't you say you are against re-training left handed people? Isn't this just as bad?" (once again, I didn't yet know it was a gender issue when I asked this; I only looked it up after that). Now, her answer was that left handed people have differences in their brain, while what I am doing has nothing to do with brain differences, it is just "bad manners".

The above answer seems to suggest that, if presented with "quiet hands" issue, she would defend the autistic side because its "brain differences". But if you look at her opinion regarding the deaf, it is not so clear any more. In particular, her career was dedicated to teach the deaf kids to speak without sign language. She believes it is wron to teach them sign language because they would never learn how to speak. Now, a few years ago she encountered a movement among deaf people who believe it is part of their culture to use sign language and not speaking, so theaching them how to speak would be against their culture. I remember her saying how ridiculous this movement is.

Now, the movement of "deaf culture" seems parallel to the movement of "autistic culture". So from this one might extrapolate she would be in favor of "quiet hands". Yet on the other hand she is opposed to re-training left handed people. That would suggest she would be opposed to "quiet hands". So I guess whether she would be in favor or opposed to quiet hands would depend on whether she would equate autistics with leftists or with deaf. And that is a very good question as to which one she would do.

By the way, here is a side question. Now that I was thinking of sign language, I remember reading on the internet some autistics saying that stimming is their way of communicating, so it is sort of an "autistic sign language". But the one thing I don't understand about it is this. In case of sign language, both sides know what various hand signs mean, so it accomplishes its purpose. But in case of stimming, nobody besides a given autistic knows what it means. That plus also the deaf people use sign language when there is someone next to them whom they are signing. But autistic people can stim all by themselves. So how can a stimming be "communication" if nobody is around?

Going back to the mom thing: now that I know that 2 and 10 are gender issues, would you classify the other things as gender issues too? For example, would you classify 4 and 5 as the same type of phenomenon as a "manspread"? And what about other things such as not closing the backyard door? Do NT women complain a lot about NT men doing that?

Does she complain about these things when you are eating by yourself, or only when you are eating a meal with your family? In the latter case, she might feel that it is rude for you to act like you are in a huge hurry to leave, rather than have a leisurely conversation with the rest of the family.


They won't fall by themselves. But are you, she, or anyone else in your family at all physically clumsy or otherwise accident-prone? If so, she's probably concerned that an object that isn't fully on the table is more likely to get knocked off the table -- perhaps by someone else in the family, if not by you.

My own rule is stricter than hers: A cup or a glass containing any liquid must be at least a foot away from the edge of the table. Otherwise I am likely to knock it down.


Depends how clumsy or otherwise accident-prone you, she, and/or other members of your family are.


Who bought this laptop, you or she? And, if the laptop breaks, who will pay for a new one, you or she? And can you easily pay for it if necessary?

If it's her laptop, you should follow her rules. You should also follow her rules if it's your laptop but she will be in any way involved in buying a new one if it breaks.

On the other hand, if it's your laptop and you will be the one to pay for it if it breaks and you will have no difficulty doing so, then perhaps you might want to politely remind her of these facts. In that case, it seems to me that you should have the right to decide unilaterally what physical risks you are willing to take with your laptop.


See above.


Do you feel more comfortable studying inside? If so, have you tried to explain to her your reasons why?


Her house, her rules. Forgetting to do this results in either (1) less fresh air in the house, if you close the door that doesn't let air through or (2) bugs in the house, if you don't close the screen door. So it is indeed inconsiderate of you not to make an effort to remember this.


I assume she does nearly all the housework otherwise?

It's appropriate for you to do at least some regular household chore to help out at least a little bit. If there's some reason why taking out the garbage is a hardship for you (e.g. if you are thoroughly grossed out by it because you have a keener sense of smell than anyone else in the family), then perhaps you could volunteer to do some other regular minor household chore in lieu of taking out the garbage.


Did you leave some words out of the sentence above?


Do your shoes often come untied when you don't tie them her way? If so, shoes coming untied are a real safety issue.

Still, this and your ear wax are issues that affect primarily you, not her. So, in my opinion, you are justified in asking her to be less "controlling" on these specific issues.


Is "the" phone hers or yours? If it's hers, then her phone, her rules. If it's fully yours (and you will be the one to pay for a new one if it breaks, and you will have no trouble doing so), then it's really none of her business what physical risks you take with it. In that case you would be justified in asking her to be less controlling in this regard.


Sitting with your legs apart is "manspreading" only if it intrudes on someone else's space. If you are sitting at the table by yourself and no one will be sitting next to you, it's not "manspreading." It IS "manspreading" if someone else is or will be sitting next to you and your leg is either in their way or otherwise annoyingly close to them.


See my comments above. Some of the issues you listed are common female-male interaction issues, others are just general common courtesy issues, and others really do seem to be overly controlling behavior on her part.


She might still consider it to be rude behavior even if she doesn't call it "manspreading."


In both cases what matters is who else is around, and how they are impacted if at all.

Spreading your legs is "manpreading" -- and generally rude -- when there are other people who either are or will be sitting next to you. But there's nothing wrong with it when you are by yourself and no one is likely to sit next to you.

Likewise stimming is fine when you are either by yourself or otherwise in a situation where your stims aren't distracting or otherwise inconveniencing other people. If there are other people around and you need to stim, then you should either leave the room or find some way to stim that minimizes annoyance to other people. (This, by the way, is one of the reasons why the "open office" fad is so bad for autistic people. Many of us need privacy for various reasons, one of which is so we can stim without annoying our co-workers.)

Trying to stop people from doing either of these things absolutely, at all times, is being overly controlling. But, regarding both of these things, it's important to be considerate towards other people.

EDIT: I was not able to answer your poll. None of the options fit my views. My impression is that some of your mother's complaints about your behavior are probably justified, but that other complaints of hers might not be justified, depending on the context.

I agree with Mona, that is a very good post.

Your mother cleaning out your earwax sounds grossly inappropriate. Her rules about the right way to sit, stand, or eat are silly but not controlling. Otherwise, she seems to basically be being reasonable. Reminding you to take care of your possessions or asking you to do a simple piece of housework is not abusive.

The ear wax thing, unless she’s actually worried you might poke out your ear drum.

My mom says that all parents, especially mothers since mothers are usually the ones taking care of the children more than fathers, will always see their children as just that, their children, even if they are adults, so there is an unconscious need for advising their children. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it can be annoying, sometimes it's annoying but the mom has a good point... anyway, let's look at this thing case by case.

Do you have a history of almost choking with your food? If yes, your mother might be concerned about your safety. It's also healthier for your stomach to eat calmly and make sure you chew properly. Plus, at least where I'm from, eating really fast is considered bad manners. Everyone overlooks it if it's lunchtime at work and one needs to get back to work soon, but other than that, it's bad manners.



If you're alone at the table and no one is supposed to join you then this isn't really a problem, but sitting like that is considered bad manners (again, here at least.) Also, if one gets used to sitting like that, they're far likelier to sit like that in a place where it will cause trouble for other people, too. Perhaps your mom is worried that you'll sit like that in some other place by habit because you're used to doing it at home and will end up causing trouble for others? You know, personally, I'm an average sized woman, but I can't sit properly in a bus if there's an average sized man sitting like that next to me 'cause his legs come to my side. So yeah, reasons like that is why it's better if you don't make a habit of it.



Again, manners. What you're doing is bad table etiquette. And unless you're talking about finger foods, it would be proper manners to use both a fork and a knife anyway. Back in the day, my school was so strict about using both that to this day I have trouble with only using fork.



No you don't; you might still accidentally knock it down. Or someone else might. Or someone might accidentally push the table, causing it to fall off. Also, if it did fall off and broke, whose job would it be to clean it?
Same with number 5, but with that we also need to think of who pays for repair/for a new one if it breaks. If you and you only, then it's your business, but if you'd need her help financing a new one, then of course she has a say in it. This also applies to number 6, though I'll add that touching the screen will make it dirty and it's not as easy to clean.
Also applies to number 7.



This is the first one I might call a "silly mom rule." Fresh air is important though and she probably worries you don't get enough of it. Taking regular walks outside or something might get her off your back on this one.



If you use the door, it's commonsense that you close it. There's absolutely no reason why she should do it for you.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that right now you're living under her roof, perhaps even on her money. If one or both of these are true, then you really should be taking the trash out and doing even more housework! Housework is supposed to be divided by the people living in the place, and if you're living in her house for free, it'd be fair for you to do some extra. The reason why this often becomes a gender issue is that women generally do much more work around the house, and ask their husbands or kids do even such a small task as taking out the trash, and many dare to complain even about such a little thing.



Time for the cursed M -word again: manners. It's bad manners to sit crouching. And even if you don't have back problems now, you're likelier to have them when you get older if you don't get any practice sitting up straight.



Weird mom thing number 2! This one, you can just flat out refuse if you want to. It's directly about your body, and your body, your rules.



If your way has turned out ineffective, like they keep opening, then you should listen to her since open shoelaces are a safety issue. But if your way works, then it's irrational of her to insist on her way.



If the stuff you're holding is yours and you'll pay for it if it breaks, you should be allowed to do what you want, but if it's hers or she needs to pay if it breaks, then you should listen to her.

Really, a good rule here would be her place, her rules and her stuff, her rules. When you live on your own, do as you please and if needed, tell your mom that you have the rights to decide the rules of your own home, but when under her roof, respect her way of living. Of course, if you're actually paying 50/50 about everything, then it's also your place and you should talk about what rules there should be together.

It is good that some of you asked me who pays for this stuff. I guess I didn't connect the dots together. As far as the laptop goes, my mom bought it initially, but I pay for all the repairs. However, back when I lived away from my mom (before COVID started) I was not good at managing my money so my mom ended up helping me pay my credit card. At the same time, I did earn money (by being a teaching assistant), so part of credit card I paid, part she did. So it is really a gray area as to whose money that was.

The situation changed after COVID started. As I moved in to live with her, I am no longer spending money (unless she sends me to grocery store or something). At the same time I continue to earn money. So I paid off all of my credit card, and have around 8 thousand dollars on my checking account. The reason I am not helping out my mom is because I have 24 thousand student loan that I hope to pay off. I am not telling my mom about that loan though for the following reason. I took that loan when I didn't know if I will get a stipend or not. I did. So that means that the loan money shouldn't have been spent, yet they were. So I don't want my mom to get nosy how they got spent (I myself am not sure: like I said I am not very careful with money). My mom did ask me on a couple of occasions why am I not helping her out, and I sort of evaded answering that question. But these were only one or two occasions, that happened several months after I moved in with her, and both of those times she only asked me because she was angry at me. When she isn't angry she is perfectly fine with status quo.

Now, I realize that I am being selfish in the way I handle the money thing. Particularly, its not fair towards my mom that I am using her to help me pay off the loan without telling her that that is what she is doing. However, that is not the question that is being asked in this thread. The question is whether she is being overly controlling with telling me how to handle my cell phone and the laptop. I do see your point that the two things are connected since she would be the one who would pay for it if it breaks (especially if I intend to use all my money for the loan). But the question is: why is she thinking it would break on the first place? The whole point is that I am not nearly as clumsy as she thinks I am. So I know for a fact that it won't break. And this goes back to her clearing out my ears. She thinks I would poke my ear drum when I know for a fact that I won't. Well, knowing for a fact that various things won't break and knowing for a fact I won't poke my ear dram are connected. In both cases I just "know" how my body operates but she doesn't.

Well, as my mom points out, my computer DID break, many times. But it wasn't the way that she thinks it did. I can come up with few guesses on how it might have broken. One is that it is in my backpack and I am throwing backpack on the floor every time I sit down somewhere. The other guess is that if it is plugged into a charger and I accidentally hit the wire with my legs, then the wire might drag it from the table. But neither of those things have anything to do with its edge sticking out. I don't see how I can possibly hit the edge of laptop and make it fall. Well, if I try then I can. But unless I specifically try to do that, it just won't happen.

Going back to "her house her rules" thing, it would make sense from the following perspective: she is doing me a favor by letting me live in her house and I am returning the favor by following her rules. But the thing is that it wasn't me who wanted to live in her house, it was her who pushed me to live with her when COVID started. Now, I know that she did it because she thinks I would be better off with her than without her (which again goes back to her under-estimating my skills) but the point is that I wasn't the one asking for it. So lets say at the grocery store a cashier will "make" you take a grocery that you don't think you need. Would it be fair if she also makes you pay for it too? I would say no: if she wants to make you take it, fine, but she better let you take it for free if it is her idea.

It's hard to deter mother dogs from their old tricks.....that's all I can say

My mother is very similar in this regard.

QFT, I noticed the following:

- You *have* indeed broken you computer several times.
- You wasted $ 24,000 (!), and you aren't even sure how.

Based on this, your mother is obviously right to be sceptical about your ability to take care of yourself.

And I recommend that you tell your mother about your debt as soon as possible, so she can help you get it sorted out.

You're a legal adult, so there was no way she was able to force you to stay with her. If you really didn't want to, you could've just said no. Or you could leave her place now. She's doing you a HUGE favor by letting you live at her place for free, so the least you can do is to follow her rules, even if they don't make sense to you.

The point is that she put a lot of psychological pressure on me to say yes, as she was having phone calls with me on a daily basis, few hours a day, until I finally said yes.



And there is a good chance I will, once the semester starts. Since now the school is in person. Although at the same time I am done with my classes so I am only there for a thesis. Unless I will have to teach (which I do some of the semesters but not all -- they often have me grade), there is no "strong" reason for me to be there. My professor wants me there. But given the loan situation I am not so sure. I am actually thinking of telling the professor about my loan and asking him whether he thinks the reasons for me to be there are more important than the loan.



1) Again, it was her who was pressuring me to do it

2) Even though I say that she did it for me, that is not what she actually "said". She "said" it would be hard for her by herself during COVID because she is old and all the stuff like that. Now, I know it is a lie and it is really for me: the reason she lied is that she knows I would argue with her if she says its for me. But fact remains: if she didn't actually "say" it was for me, how is she "doing me a huge favor"

3) Even if she did say it was for me, the fact that I don't think I need it, then its not really a favor. If someone pressures you to eat a certain food because they believe that food is good for you, but you disagree with them, is it a favor?

I didn't break it due to its edges sticking out. I broke it by dragging the wire with my feet and by throwing my backpack on the floor with my laptop there. Its easier to break it these two ways than through the edge sticking out. Especially if the edge sticks out only by a couple of sentimeters.



That has to do with money "adding up". Its one thing to have a big screw up on the spot (such as having a laptop fall on the floor due to one small edge sticking out) and its totally different thing to have many small screw ups that add up (such as with money). So if my mom is concerned about "small things that add up", then yes she has every right to be. But if she is concerned about "big things", then I don't see why she should be. Particularly if they are the ones easy to avoid.

You didn't need to answer, or you could've cut the talk short.



I could be wrong, but I don't think your professor will care about your personal problems (the loan.) If it's possible for you to do as the professor says, it's likely to be better for your career in the long run to do just that.



If someone lent you a dollar in a grocery store because you were a dollar short to pay for your food, would it only be a favor if the person said it was? The fact is that you're saving big sums of money because she lets you stay there so yes, it's a HUGE favor.



Yes it is. If she'd offered it and you hadn't taken the offer, then it wouldn't be a favor. You had the chance to say no, yet you didn't, so just be grateful for what you get. Plenty of people would jump at a chance like yours (getting to save all their money while being provided for by a parent.)
As for the food thing, as long as it's not physically forced to be eaten and it is healthy (plus the person's not allergic or the like) then yes, it is a favor. That's how little kids learn to eat their greens. Of course you, as an adult, should get to decide about your food by yourself, but since you're living under her roof with her money, I think it's only fair that you eat what she offers you... or was this just an example?

On the ear thing, because that seems like the point of greatest contention...

I interpreted your original post as follows:

1) Your mother notices that your ears are dirty
2) Your mother insists on cleaning your ears

But if I have this right, the actual chain of events is:

1) You clean your ears
2) Your mother stops you and takes over

The second scenario is much more reasonable.

Frankly, human ear canals usually don't need to be cleaned, and the methods we use to clean them - like sticking cotton swabs in there - probably do more harm than good. I find the process of cleaning my ears with a swab deeply satisfying, but I know it is bad for me, there is a serious risk of injury, and that I shouldn't do it. Smart and capable people make mistakes all the time - you can very easily stick the swab slightly too far in, or let the phone slip from your hand, or bash the bottom half of the laptop against something when carrying it by the screen. When your mother advises you to do things differently, she isn't (usually) trying to enforce an arbitrary preference upon you, she is giving you good advice that you should consider.

Actually what happens is the first scenario. I never clean my ears when I am away from my mom. And when I am at her place I would never do that either unless she decides to do it.



There were few times when I stopped hearing well due to all the wax, and I had to go to the doctor to have the doctor wash it out, and then my hearing returned when they washed it. That is what my mom sometimes say as her reason for cleaning them out: so that I won't have to go to the doctor to do it, since she is worried that fluching it with water at the doctors office would damage the ear drams. However, the first time I lost hearing and had to go to the doctor to wash it was when I was 21, but my mom was cleaning my ears ever since I was a teenager.

In any case, the doctor actually agrees with you. The doctor says that I should not clear it with the cotton swabs. Instead, I should wait till I lose hearing and then go to the doctor to clean it, since doctors cleaning is safer. But my mom twists what doctor says: she says that she isn't going inside my ear with the cotton swab, she is only going around it. But the point is that the doctor probably knows that going around it is what we are talking about, and he still says its a bad idea, but my mom isn't getting it.

But anyway, the part that I find the most ridiculous is this. Lets just say that, for the sake of the argument, that "one of us" is going to do it with the cotton swab (of course, the doctor says we shouldn't, but lets put it aside for a second). Now the question is which is safer: is it safer if I do it or is it safer if my mom does it? I believe its safer if I do it because I feel it and my mom doesn't. My mom thinks its safer if she does it, because she sees it and I don't. So that goes to show that my mom doesn't think I can feel my body as much as I do. And that is the same concept as her thinking I will break things when I know for a fact that I won't.



But the thing is that it never happened. As far as sticking swab too far in, I FEEL it, so why would i ever do it? Here is the thing: when my mom does it, it feels very uncomfortable and occasionally it was painful. When I do that, it is never uncomfortable not to the slightest. Why is that? Because I FEEL my ear. And thats what my mom doesn't get.

Althought at the same time I can use this same argument against the doctor too: when I do it, it is a lot more comfortable, and a lot less scary, than when doctor does it.



The reason it won't slip is that I am used to carrying it in my hand all the time, so I remember to hold it subconsciously. If someone who isn't used to doing it were to be asked to do it, then yes it would slip. But if someone is used to it, then it won't slip. And, conversely, if someone is used to put it down, then they won't forget to take it. But if I am being "told" to put it down by my mom, then yes I would forget to take it. Each person does the best at the mode they are used to. I am used to holding it in my hand. My mom is used to puting it down. So if my mom tells me not to hold it in my hand, I would forget to pick it back up. If I tell my mom to hold it in my hand, then she would drop it. But if each person does the way they are used to, then everyone is happy.

Although the last sentence of the above paragraph is not entirely true. There were many times when my mom was asking me to call her phone because she forgot where she put it. And I was pointing it out to her that maybe if she were to hold it in her hands like I do, she wouldn't need to do it. Also with other things my mom has trouble finding stuff because she would put it in some really clever place she would forget what it is. But I don't put it in any clever place, I just put it at the very place I am standing. So even though I make a big mess, at least everything is visible. I guess not entirely: I have trouble finding things too, and my mom's room is messy just like mine is. So maybe we are not that different from each other in this regard. But still the point is that there are some advantages to my way of doing things. And if my mom, too, loses things, then why is she acting so controling about me?



Again, if I do that multiple times a day, every day, for many years, and it never happened, then there is a reason to be confident that it won't. Yes, I broke laptop many times, but not in the silly ways like that.



I know that. Its just that I don't agree with her assumption that I would do better if I follow that advice. Those are the things that might be more comfortable FOR HER, but I am not her. So maybe for me different things are comfortable.