Does systemic racism against blacks even exist anymore?
10 Aug 2021, 7:52 pm
So if America did what no country in history has ever done before and became completely non-racist, What would that look like? What would our laws be? What type of government and society would we have? What would the citizenry be?
Star trek explored that concept as early as the 1960s. In theory it shouldn't be rocket science.
The problem is legislation can only go so far. People's hearts and minds need to change. Intergenerational prejudice isn't that easy to give up.
auntblabby
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11 Aug 2021, 8:27 am
So if America did what no country in history has ever done before and became completely non-racist, What would that look like? What would our laws be? What type of government and society would we have? What would the citizenry be?
Star trek explored that concept as early as the 1960s. In theory it shouldn't be rocket science.
The problem is legislation can only go so far. People's hearts and minds need to change. Intergenerational prejudice isn't that easy to give up.
I agree.
In the original series episode The Savage Curtain (I think) Kirk says that "We've grown beyond fearing words". In 2021 we not only fear words but fear different opinions, viewpoints and thoughts. Remember that this show was from the Mid 20th Century. We seem to have regressed to tribalism in the present times
I remember the early 70s that show was kinda my safe space of sanity in an insane (NT) world. Where people were not judged by their color, race, sex, or even species, but on their character. That is the essence of classical liberal thought.
11 Aug 2021, 2:29 pm
So much of this question depends on how you define the word racism, which has become surprisingly fraught and difficult since academic post-modernism has warped so many of the words that used to have commonly understood and relatively fixed meanings.
If you use the Ibram X Kendi formulation that any racially disparate result is de facto racism, then things look pretty bad, but Kendi is also an intellectual lightweight who can't defend his ridiculous theory and so only engages with friends and never critics, as under his theory the NBA is horrifically racist because blacks are so over-represented (under Kendi, any racial disparity is racism).
Taking a more nuanced look, there are certainly areas that could be improved, notably the criminal justice system, but on the whole things are looking up, and the success of various immigrant groups such as Caribbeans and Nigerians suggests that actual racial prejudice is not as much of a barrier as it's often presented to be. The success of Asians is another such indicator, but no one seems to want to talk about that for some reason.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
11 Aug 2021, 2:48 pm
If you use the Ibram X Kendi formulation that any racially disparate result is de facto racism, then things look pretty bad, but Kendi is also an intellectual lightweight who can't defend his ridiculous theory and so only engages with friends and never critics, as under his theory the NBA is horrifically racist because blacks are so over-represented (under Kendi, any racial disparity is racism).
Taking a more nuanced look, there are certainly areas that could be improved, notably the criminal justice system, but on the whole things are looking up, and the success of various immigrant groups such as Caribbeans and Nigerians suggests that actual racial prejudice is not as much of a barrier as it's often presented to be. The success of Asians is another such indicator, but no one seems to want to talk about that for some reason.
Good point.
Racism today seems to be subjectivly defined by the person offended. Persons such as IXK have been clever enough to find a way to profit from this. Culturally in America we have a predilection to champion the under dog, but this good instinct has been abused by various grifters over the years leaving many people jaded.
11 Aug 2021, 10:33 pm
So if America did what no country in history has ever done before and became completely non-racist, What would that look like? What would our laws be? What type of government and society would we have? What would the citizenry be?
Star trek explored that concept as early as the 1960s. In theory it shouldn't be rocket science.
The problem is legislation can only go so far. People's hearts and minds need to change. Intergenerational prejudice isn't that easy to give up.
I agree.
In the original series episode The Savage Curtain (I think) Kirk says that "We've grown beyond fearing words". In 2021 we not only fear words but fear different opinions, viewpoints and thoughts. Remember that this show was from the Mid 20th Century. We seem to have regressed to tribalism in the present times
I remember the early 70s that show was kinda my safe space of sanity in an insane (NT) world. Where people were not judged by their color, race, sex, or even species, but on their character. That is the essence of classical liberal thought.
Actions speak louder than words. In a recent survey conducted by the Univ of Mass. 83% of black Americans believe they have been discriminated against at work. 73% think they are treated worse by the police
According to the researchers -“To me the biggest take-away from this survey is that our data show that whites do not connect the disadvantages faced by Blacks to their own advantage. Whites have yet to understand the full extent of the privileges structural racism bestows upon them. While many whites readily say that Blacks are discriminated against, they do not see how the lack of opportunity for Blacks translates into more opportunities for whites,” said Mona Kleinberg, assistant professor of political science who designed and analyzed the poll
11 Aug 2021, 10:58 pm
Racism today seems to be subjectivly defined by the person offended. Persons such as IXK have been clever enough to find a way to profit from this. Culturally in America we have a predilection to champion the under dog, but this good instinct has been abused by various grifters over the years leaving many people jaded.
Jonah Goldberg (if you aren't reading him already, you should be) calls the thing I underlined "intellectual stolen bases", manipulating language and our natural good instincts to trick people into supporting things that they might not have if they'd taken a closer look. "Anti-racism" is the current champ at this, as it's actually just a different form of racism, but because of the name far too many people embrace it without actually learning what it means.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
12 Aug 2021, 8:45 am
So if America did what no country in history has ever done before and became completely non-racist, What would that look like? What would our laws be? What type of government and society would we have? What would the citizenry be?
Star trek explored that concept as early as the 1960s. In theory it shouldn't be rocket science.
The problem is legislation can only go so far. People's hearts and minds need to change. Intergenerational prejudice isn't that easy to give up.
I agree.
In the original series episode The Savage Curtain (I think) Kirk says that "We've grown beyond fearing words". In 2021 we not only fear words but fear different opinions, viewpoints and thoughts. Remember that this show was from the Mid 20th Century. We seem to have regressed to tribalism in the present times
I remember the early 70s that show was kinda my safe space of sanity in an insane (NT) world. Where people were not judged by their color, race, sex, or even species, but on their character. That is the essence of classical liberal thought.
Actions speak louder than words. In a recent survey conducted by the Univ of Mass. 83% of black Americans believe they have been discriminated against at work. 73% think they are treated worse by the police
According to the researchers -“To me the biggest take-away from this survey is that our data show that whites do not connect the disadvantages faced by Blacks to their own advantage. Whites have yet to understand the full extent of the privileges structural racism bestows upon them. While many whites readily say that Blacks are discriminated against, they do not see how the lack of opportunity for Blacks translates into more opportunities for whites,” said Mona Kleinberg, assistant professor of political science who designed and analyzed the poll
Success is not a zero sum game. The white man's success is not the black man's failure. The problem is more of a cultural issue than anything. There are race grifters out there who sell the idea that black people are perpetual victims and cannot achieve because the white man won't allow it. This is absolute nonsense. It appeals to persons who want an excuse not to try.
I would love to hear that all of my problems and failures in life are someone elses fault, but it isn't true. Its a vicious circle that just traps people into a miserable life and benefits no one but the race grifters.
12 Aug 2021, 8:47 am
Racism today seems to be subjectivly defined by the person offended. Persons such as IXK have been clever enough to find a way to profit from this. Culturally in America we have a predilection to champion the under dog, but this good instinct has been abused by various grifters over the years leaving many people jaded.
Jonah Goldberg (if you aren't reading him already, you should be) calls the thing I underlined "intellectual stolen bases", manipulating language and our natural good instincts to trick people into supporting things that they might not have if they'd taken a closer look. "Anti-racism" is the current champ at this, as it's actually just a different form of racism, but because of the name far too many people embrace it without actually learning what it means.
Yes, Jona Goldberg is one of my favorite authors. He has a great way of cutting to the heart of the issue and making it easy to understand.
12 Aug 2021, 5:11 pm
Didn't we fight a war with a guy that came to power that way?
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
funeralxempire
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12 Aug 2021, 5:16 pm
Success is not a zero sum game. The white man's success is not the black man's failure. The problem is more of a cultural issue than anything. There are race grifters out there who sell the idea that black people are perpetual victims and cannot achieve because the white man won't allow it. This is absolute nonsense. It appeals to persons who want an excuse not to try.
I would love to hear that all of my problems and failures in life are someone elses fault, but it isn't true. Its a vicious circle that just traps people into a miserable life and benefits no one but the race grifters.
It's easy to dismiss complaints if you've never witnessed it up close. If only you could walk a mile in the shoes of the people you're insisting must be duped by race grifters instead of yourself being duped by grifters who try to pretend institutionalized and systemic racism don't exist because they don't want to have to consider it's impacts.
_________________
Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
13 Aug 2021, 4:04 am
Easy to wear blinkers when the consequences don't impact on you.
13 Aug 2021, 6:49 am
Success is not a zero sum game. The white man's success is not the black man's failure. The problem is more of a cultural issue than anything. There are race grifters out there who sell the idea that black people are perpetual victims and cannot achieve because the white man won't allow it. This is absolute nonsense. It appeals to persons who want an excuse not to try.
I would love to hear that all of my problems and failures in life are someone elses fault, but it isn't true. Its a vicious circle that just traps people into a miserable life and benefits no one but the race grifters.
It's easy to dismiss complaints if you've never witnessed it up close. If only you could walk a mile in the shoes of the people you're insisting must be duped by race grifters instead of yourself being duped by grifters who try to pretend institutionalized and systemic racism don't exist because they don't want to have to consider it's impacts.
But where does it get us? What does it solve? An entire nation of persons hurling grievances at one another. Everyone has been treated unfairly but making your grievances the prism through which you view the world is a recipe for failure and misery.
13 Aug 2021, 3:12 pm
Exactly. I've become a fan of racial abolition, because race is a stupid way to view the world. The two most prominent evangelists for this view are Kmele Foster and Thomas Chatterton Williams, and Williams has a book called Self Portrait in Black and White that I highly recommend. It's partly an autobiography, but it focuses on Williams' experience around the birth of his daughter, when his "black" daughter was born with blond hair and blue eyes and so completely Caucasian in appearance that it forced him to reconsider the whole idea of race and what it means. It's not a long book and it's an easy read, but it's profound.
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
13 Aug 2021, 4:00 pm
If Blacks need social sciences for direction and for self-understanding, the white society is in even more urgent need. White America needs to understand that it is poisoned to its soul by racism and the understanding needs to be carefully documented and consequently more difficult to reject.
When we ask Blacks to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. -- Martin Luther King Jr., in his speech The Role of the Behavioral Scientist in the Civil Rights Movement
However difficult it is to hear, however shocking it is to hear, we've got to face the fact that America is a racist country. We have got to face the fact that racism still occupies the throne of our nation. I don’t think we will ultimately solve the problem of racial injustice until this is recognized, and until this is worked on. -- Live Q&A with Martin Luther King Jr. at the sixty-eighth annual convention of the Rabbinical Assembly, March 25, 1968.
It lies in the "congenital deformity" of racism that has crippled the nation from its inception. The roots of racism are very deep in America. Historically it was so acceptable in the national life that today it still only lightly burdens the conscience. No one surveying the moral landscape of ours can overlook the hideous and pathetic wreckage of commitment twisted and turned to a thousand shapes under the stress of prejudice and irrationality.
Soon the doctrine of white supremacy was imbedded in every textbook and preached in practically every pulpit. It became a structural part of the culture. And men then embraced this philosophy, not as the rationalization of a lie, but as the expression of a final truth.
Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn. The reality of substantial investment to assist Blacks into the twentieth century, adjusting to Black neighbors and genuine school integration, is still a nightmare for all too many white Americans. -- Martin Luther King Jr., in his book Where Do We Go From Here
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