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Pepe
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24 Aug 2021, 8:07 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
On an intellectual level, though, these cretins today would have fit in. When Heidegger joined the Nazis (worst mistake of his life, he confided in Hannah Ardent), they ridiculed him for his philosophizing and intellectuality. After the war, the allies were amazed to find how many of the Hitler Youth were illiterate, considering that Germany had had such a long intellectual tradition. Any and all education was focused on glorifying and supporting the state and the Nazi philosophy.


I don't find that surprising given the Nazi fixation on physical form, which our homegrown variety invariably are deficient in. Of course, there's another layer there given the decidedly unimpressive collective physique of the Nazi leadership, people were joking about it during the time period:

Image

The caption translates as: The Aryan type. A blond man like Hitler, slim like Göring, tall like Goebells.


On the flip side, Churchill had the look of an aryan hero. :mrgreen:

Image



ASPartOfMe
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24 Aug 2021, 8:18 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
[...] To me "Neo Nazi" is saying they are almost but not quite real Nazis when Nazi is exactly who they are. A Neo Nazi is a Nazi who does not have the full power of the state agreeing and supporting them and who would gladly participate in genocide if the opportunity presented itself.
I have always appreciated the way you stay on top of news items.  However, this is an instance where I must point out a simple fact: "Neo-" is a prefix meaning "New", "Recent", "Revived", or "Modified".

While your opinion may be spot-on (i.e., "does not have the full power of the state", "would gladly participate in genocide"), it is fair to point out that those nasties also fit all the meanings of the dictionary definition of "Neo-".



It pains me to say I agree with you. :cry: :mrgreen:

Did you two miss this part of my post?
“While the term "Neo Nazi" is grammatically correct that term makes my skin crawl. I never can get used to it. To me "Neo Nazi" is saying they are almost but not quite real Nazis when Nazi is exactly who they are.”

Did I really need to add another “To me” qualifier before “A Neo Nazi is a Nazi who does not have the full power of the state agreeing and supporting them and who would gladly participate in genocide if the opportunity presented itself.”?


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24 Aug 2021, 9:17 am

Off Topic
Pepe wrote:
Well, I haven't studied Hitler and his antics, but I believe he wanted a revolution.

If you're interested in learning a little, have a look at:

Or, if you want a longer video...



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24 Aug 2021, 10:09 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I am not convinced.
"Nazis" were fascists during the Nazis Germany period.
The new fascists are new neo Nazis. 8)


You know, I've long thought that calling these kinds of people "Nazis" was giving them entirely too much credit, as Nazi Germany was a technological and military powerhouse that punched far above its weight, and these people... are not. I do also wonder how many people flying the swastika actually believe in what it stood for, or are more trying to be edgy, like college kids with Che Guevara shirts who presumably don't support his more authoritarian tendencies (but man he looked cool...).


Germany was the pinnacle of scientific research, at that time. 8)
And yes, stupid kids are stupid kids. 8)


Yeah sick experiments done on prisoners in death camps.



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24 Aug 2021, 12:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Splitting hairs to avoid the fact the Turner diary is a bible for most Neo-Nazis
https://www.vox.com/22232779/the-turner ... her-pierce


Notice that I didn't make any claims about the contents of The Turner Diaries, but you've totally failed to support your claim that the OKC bombing was racially motivated; put up or shut up, where's the evidence?

Also, up until earlier this year, you could buy a copy on Amazon; does that mean Jeff Bezos is a Nazi too?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/12/2222 ... tol-attack


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24 Aug 2021, 1:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
On an intellectual level, though, these cretins today would have fit in. When Heidegger joined the Nazis (worst mistake of his life, he confided in Hannah Ardent), they ridiculed him for his philosophizing and intellectuality. After the war, the allies were amazed to find how many of the Hitler Youth were illiterate, considering that Germany had had such a long intellectual tradition. Any and all education was focused on glorifying and supporting the state and the Nazi philosophy.


I don't find that surprising given the Nazi fixation on physical form, which our homegrown variety invariably are deficient in. Of course, there's another layer there given the decidedly unimpressive collective physique of the Nazi leadership, people were joking about it during the time period:

Image

The caption translates as: The Aryan type. A blond man like Hitler, slim like Göring, tall like Goebells.


On the flip side, Churchill had the look of an aryan hero. :mrgreen:

Image


I don't think Churchill ever claimed to be such.


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24 Aug 2021, 1:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Splitting hairs to avoid the fact the Turner diary is a bible for most Neo-Nazis
https://www.vox.com/22232779/the-turner ... her-pierce


Notice that I didn't make any claims about the contents of The Turner Diaries, but you've totally failed to support your claim that the OKC bombing was racially motivated; put up or shut up, where's the evidence?

Also, up until earlier this year, you could buy a copy on Amazon; does that mean Jeff Bezos is a Nazi too?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/12/2222 ... tol-attack


Only if he based his business and life philosophy on it.


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24 Aug 2021, 1:43 pm

McVeigh was pretty clear about his motives, as Dox points out.
He was also ideologically aligned with white supremacists, but that wasn't his motive.


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24 Aug 2021, 4:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Only if he based his business and life philosophy on it.


Alright, step on up with the evidence that McVeigh was racially motivated then. So far all we've got is that he owned a racist book, do you have anything else?


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24 Aug 2021, 5:05 pm

MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sounds like they are members of the Atomwaffen Division.

Image


Atomwaffen Division are basically an FBI operation, just as the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot was.

I know some people on this forum like to point and sputter about a supposed right-wing terrorist threat in the US, but most of it is just made up, a creation of either the media or intelligence agencies.

The FBI have a history of infiltration and entrapment against black radicals and Islamic radicals, and now they seem to be concentrating almost exclusively on white rightist radicals. See the following:

Quote:
http://www.theburkean.ie/articles/2021/ ... tanic-cult

Atomwaffen: Why Did the FBI Sponsor a Neo-Nazi Satanic Cult?
Eoin Corcoran on 24/08/2021

Britain’s spooks are not the only ones playing an underhanded game, as court documents have emerged in the United States, showing the history of FBI involvement with the Neo-Nazi terror network Atomwaffen Division.

Atomwaffen, a long-time favoured fear-mongering tool of the media , was founded on the website Iron March (itself a honeypot akin to Stormfront) in the late 2010’s, and was supposed to have been the next generation of the likes of C18 or National Action with an updated fashy-chic aesthetic.

While some members have been held for involvement in murders, the group has not posed the existential threat it was believed to have been and the previously hysteric media has become awkwardly silent.

Joshua Caleb Sutter has been named as the leader of the Atomwaffen Division and a paid FBI informant since the early 2000s. Sutter supposedly received remuneration of $82,000 beginning in 2018 to infiltrate and lead Atomwaffen. It has been alleged that Sutter used illegal psychedelics on a suicidal and mentally unwell teenagers, and other nefarious means to manipulate those in their teens and twenties, in his goal to turn Atomwaffen Division into a household name for terrorism a la ISIS.

Sutter’s other affiliations with the Order of Nine Angels and publishing house Martinet Press, are also quite shady. The O9A is a Satanic group originating in England during the 1960s and functions as an anarchist-satanist collective, eschewing authority or morality, with members being involved in black rituals including murders and rapes.

A printing company, Martinet House is also alleged to have promulgated materials which promotes child abuse, rape, and murder. When Sutter’s involvement with Atomwaffen came under pressure and members left smelling a rat, the FBI “were able to assuage fears of heat being brought their way by telling what was left of the group — as many quit when Sutter and others transformed it into a satanic organization — that all press is good press.”



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24 Aug 2021, 5:19 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

He may as well have been. He was programmed by the Turner diaries which is a neo-Nazi manifesto for the white race to eliminate all PoCs. He thought his act of terror would start a race war.


Do you even try to be accurate, or do you just make everything up? The Oklahoma City bombing is one of the more documented crimes of the late 20th century, and McVeigh was quite explicit that his motivation was revenge for Waco and Ruby Ridge, I don't know where you're even getting this "race war" stuff.

Here's the man in his own words from private letters he sent before his execution:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/ ... cveigh.usa
...

Here's his wiki, were it is noted that while he did read and sell The Turner Diaries, he wasn't a member of any extremist group, and there is nothing remotely racially motivated about his crime:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Here's a pro tip for free: If you're going to make up "facts", make them up about something obscure and impossible to check, not an incredibly well documented crime where the killer confessed at length and wrote voluminously of his motive, it makes it really obvious you don't know what you're talking about.


This. Cyberdad is talking rubbish here. If he wants to virtue signal about a white racist terrorism in the US, there are a handful of actual examples he could have chosen. It doesn't help his credibility that he's had to hark back to an attack of over 25 years ago that wasn't even racially motivated.



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24 Aug 2021, 5:36 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sounds like they are members of the Atomwaffen Division.

Image


Atomwaffen Division are basically an FBI operation, just as the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot was.

I know some people on this forum like to point and sputter about a supposed right-wing terrorist threat in the US, but most of it is just made up, a creation of either the media or intelligence agencies.

The FBI have a history of infiltration and entrapment against black radicals and Islamic radicals, and now they seem to be concentrating almost exclusively on white rightist radicals. See the following:

Quote:
http://www.theburkean.ie/articles/2021/ ... tanic-cult

Atomwaffen: Why Did the FBI Sponsor a Neo-Nazi Satanic Cult?
Eoin Corcoran on 24/08/2021

Britain’s spooks are not the only ones playing an underhanded game, as court documents have emerged in the United States, showing the history of FBI involvement with the Neo-Nazi terror network Atomwaffen Division.

Atomwaffen, a long-time favoured fear-mongering tool of the media , was founded on the website Iron March (itself a honeypot akin to Stormfront) in the late 2010’s, and was supposed to have been the next generation of the likes of C18 or National Action with an updated fashy-chic aesthetic.

While some members have been held for involvement in murders, the group has not posed the existential threat it was believed to have been and the previously hysteric media has become awkwardly silent.

Joshua Caleb Sutter has been named as the leader of the Atomwaffen Division and a paid FBI informant since the early 2000s. Sutter supposedly received remuneration of $82,000 beginning in 2018 to infiltrate and lead Atomwaffen. It has been alleged that Sutter used illegal psychedelics on a suicidal and mentally unwell teenagers, and other nefarious means to manipulate those in their teens and twenties, in his goal to turn Atomwaffen Division into a household name for terrorism a la ISIS.

Sutter’s other affiliations with the Order of Nine Angels and publishing house Martinet Press, are also quite shady. The O9A is a Satanic group originating in England during the 1960s and functions as an anarchist-satanist collective, eschewing authority or morality, with members being involved in black rituals including murders and rapes.

A printing company, Martinet House is also alleged to have promulgated materials which promotes child abuse, rape, and murder. When Sutter’s involvement with Atomwaffen came under pressure and members left smelling a rat, the FBI “were able to assuage fears of heat being brought their way by telling what was left of the group — as many quit when Sutter and others transformed it into a satanic organization — that all press is good press.”


According to what source?


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slam_thunderhide
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24 Aug 2021, 6:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sounds like they are members of the Atomwaffen Division.

Image


Atomwaffen Division are basically an FBI operation, just as the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot was.

According to what source?


I provided a link to the article I quoted; the article was from The Burkean website.

The article contained a link (which I also quoted) to a twitter thread where the investigative reporter Ali Winston grudgingly concedes these facts. (Ali Winston has worked for The Intercept and The Daily Beast, and has previously written pieces warning about "the far right").

In the twitter thread Winston provides a link to the court documents were these facts are revealed.

Do you have a source for the following?

Kraichgauer wrote:
After the war, the allies were amazed to find how many of the Hitler Youth were illiterate, considering that Germany had had such a long intellectual tradition. Any and all education was focused on glorifying and supporting the state and the Nazi philosophy.


Since the leaders of National Socialist Germany tried to promote the idea that Wagner, Beethoven, Goethe etc belonged as much to German factory workers as they did to German elites, I'm calling BS on this.



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24 Aug 2021, 7:04 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
If he wants to virtue signal about a white racist terrorism in the US, there are a handful of actual examples he could have chosen. It doesn't help his credibility that he's had to hark back to an attack of over 25 years ago that wasn't even racially motivated.


I was tempted to throw him the Order murder in Colorado, as that's one of the few that I could think of off hand that fit his stereotype, but I decided to let him flail, it's what he does.


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24 Aug 2021, 7:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
According to what source?


You, asking for sources, when the source was included in the post; that's gotta be a triple PPR bingo right there.


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24 Aug 2021, 9:03 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
[...] To me "Neo Nazi" is saying they are almost but not quite real Nazis when Nazi is exactly who they are. A Neo Nazi is a Nazi who does not have the full power of the state agreeing and supporting them and who would gladly participate in genocide if the opportunity presented itself.
I have always appreciated the way you stay on top of news items.  However, this is an instance where I must point out a simple fact: "Neo-" is a prefix meaning "New", "Recent", "Revived", or "Modified".

While your opinion may be spot-on (i.e., "does not have the full power of the state", "would gladly participate in genocide"), it is fair to point out that those nasties also fit all the meanings of the dictionary definition of "Neo-".



It pains me to say I agree with you. :cry: :mrgreen:

Did you two miss this part of my post?
“While the term "Neo Nazi" is grammatically correct that term makes my skin crawl. I never can get used to it. To me "Neo Nazi" is saying they are almost but not quite real Nazis when Nazi is exactly who they are.”

Did I really need to add another “To me” qualifier before “A Neo Nazi is a Nazi who does not have the full power of the state agreeing and supporting them and who would gladly participate in genocide if the opportunity presented itself.”?



You are not the only one who has muddied True Nazis with Neo Nazis. :wink:



Last edited by Pepe on 24 Aug 2021, 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.