Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.

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cyberdad
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28 Sep 2021, 11:59 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Do some research on facts about the Progressive movement. You will be shocked at what you find.


It's all relative Reynholm. The biggest sin progressives do is to commit millions to public spending which conservatives claim end up meaning the country is in greater debt.

I think there are creative ways progressives can do both if we cut the defense/security budget by 10% it would make a massive difference to the checklist of things the electorate want.



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29 Sep 2021, 12:18 am

conservatives know that a reduced MIC budget means more available for social programs which they hate. that is one of the real reasons they support a huge MIC.



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29 Sep 2021, 1:37 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.


The problem is that portion of time before\leading up to "getting out of college and living in the real world" - What is it that causes people to believe something so strongly during that time period which is so quickly shown to be incorrect on leaving it, and why is this happening?


It is incorrect to assume that anyone flips 180 after graduating college. I would suggest that Fnord was exaggerating a little.

Having two young adults in my household (albeit no longer living here), I can say that the hormonal changes of youth tend to create a level of passion that can be extreme. Its the same passion that for ages drove fierce young fighters through battle, and young lovers into marriage. But like any flame, it burns its brightest at the moment the match is struck, then quickly mellows. IMHO we don't need any explanation beyond the fact that everything burns intensely for a while in that age range, before they gain a little more perspective.


Setting aside the minor detail that Fnord had nothing to do with my post - The fact that so many people of that age feel so strongly about something suggests that the educators of those people are either encouraging, or at the least not "challenging" the views these people are picking up, which is supported by the fact so many lose those views once exposed to the real world, whilst those who remain insulated within the educational system tend to be the ones who retain and propagate them.



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29 Sep 2021, 4:06 am

Brictoria wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.


The problem is that portion of time before\leading up to "getting out of college and living in the real world" - What is it that causes people to believe something so strongly during that time period which is so quickly shown to be incorrect on leaving it, and why is this happening?


It is incorrect to assume that anyone flips 180 after graduating college. I would suggest that Fnord was exaggerating a little.

Having two young adults in my household (albeit no longer living here), I can say that the hormonal changes of youth tend to create a level of passion that can be extreme. Its the same passion that for ages drove fierce young fighters through battle, and young lovers into marriage. But like any flame, it burns its brightest at the moment the match is struck, then quickly mellows. IMHO we don't need any explanation beyond the fact that everything burns intensely for a while in that age range, before they gain a little more perspective.


Setting aside the minor detail that Fnord had nothing to do with my post - The fact that so many people of that age feel so strongly about something suggests that the educators of those people are either encouraging, or at the least not "challenging" the views these people are picking up, which is supported by the fact so many lose those views once exposed to the real world, whilst those who remain insulated within the educational system tend to be the ones who retain and propagate them.


My apologies to KraftieKortie and Fnord for writing the wrong name! Senior moment, I guess.

I completely discard the conservative position that these thoughts are planted in the young. I watched my children grow up, and I watched how their thinking evolved. We taught them to think for themselves, and so did their teachers. They reject a LOT that my husband and I believe, and a lot that their teachers believe - if they even know what their teachers believe (many very carefully did not share). But youth is naturally idealistic. They spend their young years being taught to share. To be nice. To be generous. Those are the prevalent values both liberal and conservative families teach to their children. When they first start to see despair and unfairness, they instinctively see it as "bad." They also tend to be much closer to the lessons of history. There are many, many explanations that make a lot more natural sense than the indoctrination line.

Today's American youth also bear the scars of never knowing a world where there was no 9-11. Never knowing a USA that was not at war. Never knowing a world where weather disasters were not prevalent. Never knowing a world that promised them a life that would be better than their parents. And never knowing a world without regular lock down drills at school in fear of some madman shooting them up. They are more anxious than any prior generation, more depressed, more often diagnosed with learning disabilities, and ANGRY.

My children may lose their passion to the grinding work of living adult life, and they may learn the value of incremental change over revolution, but it isn't like they will turn everything they believe on its head.

I don't buy the company line. It's an excuse. I have no patience for the attempt to find proof to justify a conclusion you already want to reach. Conservatives want to blame the educational system for turning people against their ideas instead of taking a good, hard look at the problems with their ideas.

I grew up conservative, by the way. I remember taking the pro-life position in a current issues debate at school, and I was persuasive. What is funny is that real life flipped me into a liberal. I heard real life experiences from other women, and saw how things I once believed could never be the right answer in any of those stories. We are all more products of our cumulative life experiences than we are of someone else's politics.


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29 Sep 2021, 5:42 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
We are certainly not an “evil, horrible, racist” country.

And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

We certainly are not perfect, and certain things need to be addressed.

But it’s hyperbole to suppose that everybody is fighting one another based on politics.


Agreed, but having been the major superpower for such an extended period has made many Amerians arrogant and entitled without realising it.

And yes, having kittens because of Trump is a rather first world problem when you consider people are having full-grown tigers as a result of Xi. 8O

To compare the two is ridiculous. 8)

This reminds me of a sign I saw:
"Smile, things could be worse.
So I smiled, and sure enough, things did get worse." 8O :mrgreen:



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29 Sep 2021, 5:59 am

Not “right out of college.” Rather, it’s a gradual process. But it usually happens.

I’m not a conservative. My views very akin to European Social Democracy.

I have friends who are conservative. But none of them are of the QAnon Trump variety. It’s maybe as much of an insult to call me a conservative as it is to call me a socialist.

I’m very much a “student of history.” I do find that people do tend to become more pragmatic and less idealistic as they live their lives in the rat race.

I hope I don’t give the impression that I’m a conservative.



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29 Sep 2021, 7:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


Careful not to conflate two different issues. The first was a conflict of interest in that the office of president directly publicly commented about two legal cases (Sandmann and Rittenhouse) throwing support for both the accused controversially before a jury was able to deliberate. In addition the legal defence team in both cases were the same and both had connections to Trump and to conspiracy groups.

Sandmann's case was never proven to be a hoax as a settlement was made out of court to avoid tarnishing the Washington Posts reputation with advertisers frightened of the apparent public support the of the office of POTUS made to the case and the potential fall out with MAGAs who might boycott their products/services if they advertise with that media outlet.

Watch the full un-edited video. If not an outright hoax it is misinformation that the media doubled down on even after the facts were exposed.


Yeah I've watched it plenty of times and know the backstory too. A lot of information was deemed inadmissible
- why the teachers allowed the boys to wear Trump hats?
- why the teachers allowed the boys to sexually harrass girls
- why is a school politicising a health issue? where are the parents? why are they writing permission slips to attend a rally for a nutjob cause like abortion?
- why the teachers encouraged the teenage boys to go out of their way to attack a group of black hebrews (adults) and verbally abuse them?
- why nothing was done when they surrounded an old man and ridiculed him?

I am not saying they committed a major crime, but the school helped cover up the boys actions that day due to their lack of due diligence and possible involvement in a political rally, They gladly accepted legal protection from the QAnon legal team who'se interest was to minmise bad press from MAGA wearing kids acting like bullies and racists. When the President threw his support the Washington post had no choice but settle to avoid losing advertisers.

Teachers allowed the MAGA hats because this is America and you can wear whatever you want.
Nobody was sexually harassed
The Black Hebrew group was not verbally attacked
They were from a Catholic Hight School so if they want to protest abortion they are free to do so.
The boys did not attack or surround Mr Phillips. He went out of his way to engage them and get into Sandman's face.
I'm starting to think that you just enjoy the misinformation you indulge in that is the only reason I can see for your refusal to look at the facts.



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29 Sep 2021, 8:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Do some research on facts about the Progressive movement. You will be shocked at what you find.


It's all relative Reynholm. The biggest sin progressives do is to commit millions to public spending which conservatives claim end up meaning the country is in greater debt.

I think there are creative ways progressives can do both if we cut the defense/security budget by 10% it would make a massive difference to the checklist of things the electorate want.

The biggest sin of the Progressives is using black people as trophies to show how "anti-racist" they are.



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29 Sep 2021, 8:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?


It may surprise you but the BBC and Al Jezeera and even our own Australian ABC have journalists who have been stationed in the US who have deep knowledge of the politics/culture in America.

Another advantage of foreign news services is that they are not subject to government pressure on their editorial team

This certainly happened during the Covington schoolboy legal case against the Washington post where the then POTUS interfered in two legal cases by supporting Nicholas Sandmann's parent's claims and secondly in the murder trial of Kyle Rittenhouse where again the POTUS threw his support behind the murder accused and against the families of the victims.

Both of these were major conflicts of interest given the legal team supporting Sandmann and Rittenhouse was pro-Trump, Pro-QAnon, Following Sandmann's successful out-of court settlement the events leading up to that particular story has been cancelled from media (as if it never existed) in fear of legal repercussion, These are examples of interference in the operation of the free press in the US.

The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


Whips or not, guys on horses trying to roundup people looks more than a little dehumanizing. Kinda like hunting humans in the original Planet Of The Apes.

The optics may be bad but the job of the border patrol is to keep the border secure. That may not look pretty at times but the job must be done. If we have no border we have no country.


Until the Trump years, refugees were supposed to be able to apply for asylum. That changed when Trump decided to keep out black and brown people from what he called $hithole countries, like these people.
If someone gallantly makes a dangerous journey to escape poverty and violence in order to become Americans, then that's courage that should be rewarded.[/quote
Being a refugee is not a permanent status. They can apply in any country so why must it be the United States?
If they are suffering persecution and/or abuse in their own country refugees should apply in the nearest country to their own. The US has a lot of house keeping to do in regards to the entire immigrant/refugee system.



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29 Sep 2021, 5:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
And very few people actually believe that once they get out of college and live in the real world.

I was under the mistaken impression that the zoomers would be like us boomers and "grow up". The mistake of mine is the classic assuming that because it was it always will be. The hippies turned if not into yuppies got something resembling their parents. The changes they brought to the corporate world was for the most part superficial such as casual Fridays maybe a bit of yoga during lunch hour. The graduates of "woke" elite universities are "woke capitalists" using their $$ to muscle government for radical change. Companies using their money to muscle governments is not new, it is the American way. The difference previously the corporate dollar was used to changed government policy for the financial benefit of the said company now it is being used to support Black Lives Matter, change who is allowed in what bathroom, etc HR departments at important companies are not trying for equality of opportunity but for equity.

Is this because these corporate leaders were "brainwashed" at college, their young employees expect this activism, their target market expects them to be woke, or all three? I am not sure.

Maybe reality/consequences will hit and the zoomers will eventually become more conservative. So far I see no evidence of this happaning.


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29 Sep 2021, 5:50 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Realistically, people stick with what they know. For most people, that has always been people who look like them. Embracing the beauty of the world's diversity is a process. Learning how to do it and talk about it instead of following our tribal instincts takes effort. Anyone who isn't trying is likely adding to the problem.
None of that bears a political label.

Nobody on the left as far as I know advocates cultural disintegration, I think there is slight nuance here in that one can choose to be with people they want to associate with while concurrently being conformable and tolerant with other cultures. Multiculturalism is a mosaic not necessarily a melting pot but I think you'll find many on the right keep changing the goal posts saying multiculturalism is "bad" and unpatriotic but then they put their hand up and say "no" we don't to dilute our European heritage either.

DW_a_mom wrote:
That history, when combined with modern day actions of the Republican party, is why liberals consider the party to be racist.
Modern actions of concern, from memory (I don't have the exact stats at my fingers):
1. Support of racist gerrymandering to reduce the effect of black voices.
2. Voter suppression in states like Texas, where the reality of their one per district ballot drop box limitation clearly favors sparse "white" counties over densely populated "black" counties. The Supreme Court when eliminating the voting rights act approvals agreed that the policies in question were clearly benefiting one group over the other, they just didn't think it justified continued oversight by the federal government.
3. The continual use of racist imaging to drive home conservative points and advertise conservative candidates.
4. The self-identification of openly racist groups.


DW_a_mom wrote:
Liberals haven't had clean hands, either. There is a bad habit of prioritizing virtue signaling over effective action, and a history of paternalistic policies that came more from a white savior complex than an effective desire to create equality. Plus some valid arguments have been made here that some liberal policies have done much more harm than good when it comes to achieving equality and, worse, that it could have been intentional. Intentional or not, us liberals have to own some of the systemic problems.


Pointing out that progressives can be racist is like all well and good, but progressives were the ones who did all the hard work in making the world less evil. This is a work in progress but it takes two to tango and the right need to stop burying their hands in the sand when the word race is uttered and they aren't the ones uttering the word.

Do some research on facts about the Progressive movement. You will be shocked at what you find.


Research takes effort. 8)



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29 Sep 2021, 5:56 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
The "Progressives" and the American news media have done an excellent job of brainwashing people that the USA is a horrible, evil and racist country. Yet our southern border is filled with thousands of non-white people clamoring to get in.


Don't forget the skooling system which usurps parental responsibilities and indoctrinates the impressionable minds of the children under its hostage-taking care.

Meh, blah, blah, blah. :mrgreen:



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29 Sep 2021, 6:01 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Do some research on facts about the Progressive movement. You will be shocked at what you find.


It's all relative Reynholm. The biggest sin progressives do is to commit millions to public spending which conservatives claim end up meaning the country is in greater debt.

I think there are creative ways progressives can do both if we cut the defense/security budget by 10% it would make a massive difference to the checklist of things the electorate want.

The biggest sin of the Progressives is using black people as trophies to show how "anti-racist" they are.


Do I sniff self-flagellation, "Sanctimony, Self-righteousness, and Virtue-signalling" in the air? 8O <satire>

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29 Sep 2021, 6:05 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Teachers allowed the MAGA hats because this is America and you can wear whatever you want.
Nobody was sexually harassed
The Black Hebrew group was not verbally attacked
They were from a Catholic Hight School so if they want to protest abortion they are free to do so.
The boys did not attack or surround Mr Phillips. He went out of his way to engage them and get into Sandman's face.
I'm starting to think that you just enjoy the misinformation you indulge in that is the only reason I can see for your refusal to look at the facts.


The "This is America" argument doesn't hold water with me. I spent 12 years in a conservative private catholic school in the 1970s and early 1980s and even back then/there, the school administrators never forced or pursuaded children to get involved in politicised rallies or wear hats that contravene school uniform promoting a political party or move around without teachers policing our conduct/behaviour.

It's clear to me the catholic boys school had a bad reputation already with their cohort of boys reportedly racially abusing other schools at basketball games and they didn't want the extra scrutiny/bad press so collaborated with the legal defence team's version of events to make them look squeaky clean.



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29 Sep 2021, 6:11 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Nobody was sexually harassed

https://www.indy100.com/discover/maga-h ... eo-8739981
https://hellogiggles.com/news/woman-cla ... assed-her/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... orial.html

As I said, you only have to google to find out (it really doesn't take much effort). Cause and effect. When the school openly supports a president who brags about mysogyny then that breeds a permissive culture among boys who feel emboldened to act accordingly while wearing their new messiah's logo on their heads.



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29 Sep 2021, 6:13 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So you think the BBC is more informed about the Klan than the people who live in the same state with them?


It may surprise you but the BBC and Al Jezeera and even our own Australian ABC have journalists who have been stationed in the US who have deep knowledge of the politics/culture in America.

Another advantage of foreign news services is that they are not subject to government pressure on their editorial team

This certainly happened during the Covington schoolboy legal case against the Washington post where the then POTUS interfered in two legal cases by supporting Nicholas Sandmann's parent's claims and secondly in the murder trial of Kyle Rittenhouse where again the POTUS threw his support behind the murder accused and against the families of the victims.

Both of these were major conflicts of interest given the legal team supporting Sandmann and Rittenhouse was pro-Trump, Pro-QAnon, Following Sandmann's successful out-of court settlement the events leading up to that particular story has been cancelled from media (as if it never existed) in fear of legal repercussion, These are examples of interference in the operation of the free press in the US.

The Sandmann incident was a media hoax. The video was edited to create the racist narrative. So I guess these foreign media outlets were ahead of the curve in pointing out the ill intent of the US media?
They just did this again days ago with the debunked claim that the US border patrol were using whips against Haitian refugees. The media can't be trusted.


Whips or not, guys on horses trying to roundup people looks more than a little dehumanizing. Kinda like hunting humans in the original Planet Of The Apes.

The optics may be bad but the job of the border patrol is to keep the border secure. That may not look pretty at times but the job must be done. If we have no border we have no country.


Kraichgauer wrote:
Until the Trump years, refugees were supposed to be able to apply for asylum. That changed when Trump decided to keep out black and brown people from what he called $hithole countries, like these people.
If someone gallantly makes a dangerous journey to escape poverty and violence in order to become Americans, then that's courage that should be rewarded.

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Being a refugee is not a permanent status. They can apply in any country so why must it be the United States?
If they are suffering persecution and/or abuse in their own country refugees should apply in the nearest country to their own. The US has a lot of house keeping to do in regards to the entire immigrant/refugee system.


Fixed the quote problem for you. (I think.) 8)

Yeah, that wasn't Trump's finer moment, silly bastardo.

The problem with illegal refugees, here in Australia, is that many are not valid refugees at all.
Many/most are *economic* illegal immigrants.

The problem I have for even valid refugees is that they usually have the option to go to refugee centres closer to where they are.
This may or may not be a good interim situation for some, I'll admit that.
But consider the people who have done the right thing and are pushed to the back of the queue because of queue jumpers.
The left side of politics seems to ignore these people, for a reason I cannot fathom. :scratch: