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Mishcana
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29 Jul 2007, 9:29 pm

I'm going to refer to the greek mythologies as a "religion" in a very loose sense. These are not my beliefs; it's just a curious correlation I've noticed, and I wonder what people think about it.

I know one of the things usually brought up against pagan religions is they're polythesistic. This means multi-gods pantheons.

Usually, though, there's one big creator god who makes the rest (Though in the Shinto religion and a few others there's a creator-god pair of female and male, which makes sense) I.e. in the greek mythology, Zeus.

What I'm wondering is could it be that their term for "God" is not the same as ours? Maybe the subgods are more like angels. Angels have powers, often, similiar to a greek hero, maybe a minor greek god.

In some languages God is neither male nor female as a term; in English, and french I believe, it's a very strong HE. So, what if the word itself was being mistranstlated?



skafather84
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29 Jul 2007, 10:30 pm

greek mythology was religion as far as the greek gods go...it's why they were gods. the greeks worshipped them and everything. same with the romans and the roman gods...as with the persians and their gods.


they're real religions.



calandale
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29 Jul 2007, 10:56 pm

Indeed, historical evidence seems
clear that the monotheistic religions
(until the mystery cults got weird)
were originally based upon very
similar gods. In particular, that
Yawed was indeed just a local
sky god.

Many of these gods achieved
greater prominence through
conquest, and subjugation
(and in the Jewish tradition
eventually demonization) of
these rival local deities.



imipak
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30 Jul 2007, 12:26 am

Not all religions have a god (Buddhism is one of several like that) and most monotheistic religions are really polytheist. (Why do you think the first commandment refers to other gods, as though other deities existed and Yahweh was merely top of the heap? Indeed, when ancient Egypt wentr to monotheism, they picked the sun god as being the supreme god and had the others beneath him as opposed to being equal but of other occupations.)
<p>
Then, there are religions which do not easily fall into any category. Celtic religions - for there were many - generally had the gods and goddesses subject to the whims of the fates, but the fates were not deemed to have the power of gods. This is one of the first examples of a religious separation of powers that I am aware of, although others did exist.
<p>
To study this in full, one must also examine what we mean by demons and angels. Originally, demons were the messengers of the Christian god - it wasn't until much much later that demons were re-labeled as evil and from Satan. Where the western Bible talks of demons in a person, the translation is in error as this predates the time in which demons were deemed to be of evil nature.
<p>
(It's important to stipulate, as I have not read the Bible from any of the Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Demotic or Gnostic churches. It would be wrong to judge Christianity by one quarter of the major classifications, long before we even consider denominations and the like. Oh, you DID know that the Catholic and Protestant Bibles are very different - not only in translation but even in what texts are included. I cannot condone any interpretation of Christianity based on the views of some minority, however vocal they may be.)
<p>
One may argue that if you have some specific set of criteria and importance attached to each that if you then examined every single entity that exists (corporeal, metaphysical, whatever) then you are going to have one being that is on top of the heap. Whether this is "god" or not depends on how you define "god" - something I've never really seen clearly and unambiguously done.
<p>
You could, of course, go for Arthur C. Clarke's Law (any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) and argue that there may be a technological leap that can never be made again, or must simply exist and can never be made at all, and label any being on the other side of the uncrossable chasm "gods" or effectively so, whether you believe them to be gods in a religious sense or not. Of course, it's hard to say if such a chasm exists or - if it does - if anything is on the other side, or even - if there is - whatever beings are there would even want to be worshiped as gods.
<p>
(For that matter, Jesus the Christ is recorded as saying "do not pray as the pagans do, pray only the following" - and then reciting the Lord's Prayer. If you can name me a denomination that actually obeys this commandment, please tell me. Far as I can see, most are too busy telling their god what to do that they've forgotten to listen for what they were asked.)
<p>
For the record, I am not for/against any religion and I could be considered Christian, but I will not label myself with a set of beliefs that don't even believe in themselves.



UnrelentingHorror
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30 Jul 2007, 1:48 am

Oh yeah..... Well how do you know that the other deities weren't just ignored or bullied out of the way by your god?
How do you know that YOUR deity isn't a flawed interpretation of one of the many others for that matter? Since you seem to be positing a christian centric version of that possibility.
There were plenty of gods around before and during the time your god of the bible,
Yahweh, was just a middle eastern pagan war deity.... so nyah. :P

(keep in mind this was not meant to be argumentative or taken too seriously lol)
(that being said....who knows?)



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30 Jul 2007, 5:23 pm

I have a complex theory that ties all the major religions together with science and evolution, that "god" is the sun because the sun gives off energy, which gives off light, which gives off life. Our universe started by the big bang theory. Well that requires energy right? I mean what is a star made of? Plasma energy. So, perhaps on a higher plain of conscious that we haven't obtained, these stars are like gods.... Meaning our sun would be our god.
Energy is the underlying connector here. Our thoughts, emotions, opinions, experiences, are energy. Energy which is specific to the individual, kinda like spirit DNA. Energy does not die, it is recycled. So, in theory, we may live a multitude of lives to perfect our souls to enter into the kingdom of heaven, nirvana, also known as parishpana (the blissful nothingness). At that time maybe we'd move onto a higher realm of existence.
Much of what is written in the religions seem to have alot in common, names that bounce from one religion to the next. Yet, they all taught the same ultimate message, to love unconditionally. The god in all of them traces back to the same god. Much of the "miracles" COULD be explained as extra-terrestrial phenomenon, in this way they could be our creators, or "god(s)". The miracles could be far advanced technology beyond our current comprehension. "Man was created in god's image", so is it possible that humans existed on another planet? Perhaps far more evolved than us? If this is so, they might could blend into our surroundings with astounding ease.



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30 Jul 2007, 5:24 pm

It's just a theory I'm working on.



snake321
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30 Jul 2007, 5:25 pm

Although Einstein was concluding something very much like this with his Theory of Everything before he passed away.



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30 Jul 2007, 5:42 pm

If something like this did turn up to be the case, we should all respect the great prophets, Muhammad, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, and Moses, as well as our parent race.



snake321
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30 Jul 2007, 7:17 pm

here is a link you might find interesting, it's Madame Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine.

http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/secr ... ctrine.htm



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30 Jul 2007, 9:32 pm

snake321 wrote:
here is a link you might find interesting, it's Madame Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine.

http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/secr ... ctrine.htm


Lol. I would take that with a pinch of salt. Theosophy is mostly a victorian version of scientology (in the style of its foundation rather than its actual theories.) It was also the (dubious) foundation of a great deal of (dubious) aryan race theology.


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snake321
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31 Jul 2007, 11:35 am

Wrong though about the aryan race, it didn't mean the same aryan race the nazi's reffered to.



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31 Jul 2007, 1:36 pm

snake321 wrote:
Wrong though about the aryan race, it didn't mean the same aryan race the nazi's reffered to.


It wasnt a direct link, more that (like many other philosophies) the proto-Nazis picked out the parts that they felt supported their claims and ignored the rest. Same thing they did with Nietszche. (sp?) It has long been felt that had Blavatsky lived to see what people had done with her theosophical works, she would have been most upset. That and theosophists were dealt with just as harshly as anyone else in the end. They even took things from fictional works and slotted that into their philosophy as well.


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V001
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31 Jul 2007, 11:35 pm

The way i understand how new theology is made is the old god or gods are said to be evil and made into a demon. This statement made by the agent of the new improved god man/woman/ It who has a conflict of intrest on the whole matter and wants money from you for telling you about this new god and what it wants. This pattern has been repeated many times alot of places. So as many atheist say you do not belive the 9,999 gods not the present one ppl worship i think there is one less than you :D And yes some of the first gods were based on the Sun or Sol or Nature. And i hope the god of the Bible does not exist he sounds like a rude mean Bloody thirsty tribal war god a nasty fellow. If there is something running Nature it must have a very low opinon of the Bible. Or a awful pr agent 8O



Mishcana
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01 Aug 2007, 7:09 am

V001 wrote:
The way i understand how new theology is made is the old god or gods are said to be evil and made into a demon. This statement made by the agent of the new improved god man/woman/ It who has a conflict of intrest on the whole matter and wants money from you for telling you about this new god and what it wants. This pattern has been repeated many times alot of places. So as many atheist say you do not belive the 9,999 gods not the present one ppl worship i think there is one less than you :D And yes some of the first gods were based on the Sun or Sol or Nature. And i hope the god of the Bible does not exist he sounds like a rude mean Bloody thirsty tribal war god a nasty fellow. If there is something running Nature it must have a very low opinon of the Bible. Or a awful pr agent 8O


Near as I know, the second half's god is a lot less bloody.

But ya, last time I tried reading the bible I stopped at David praying for God to "Break the arm of his enemy" and other gruesome things. I suppose it's where humanity was at in its evolution at the time, to be so ill-wishing.



calandale
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01 Aug 2007, 9:29 am

Mishcana wrote:

Near as I know, the second half's god is a lot less bloody.
.


In the edited version. :P