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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 3:14 am

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You expect ME to do your work for you?
Why don't YOU go to the original source and post that?


Further work is not necessary, all it was brought up to show was the sudden change and memory holing of more realistic casualty figures. You, however, saw an opportunity to play attack the messenger medium. The ball is in your court if you actually care, which I suspect you don't.


I will ALWAYS find Wikipedia an unreliable source when it comes to politics.
I have seen too much political bias there.
And I am autistic, with a limited number of spoons.
If I choose not to read a long post, it is MY prerogative.

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Many lives would be saved if the aggressor would move back to its own borders.


Yes many lives would be saved if unicorns flew down from heaven and spirited away the Russian forces. That's not going to happen unless NATO gets involved properly, this war is existential for Russia now, arguably it always was.


Hardly.
Europe and Ameriia were pooping their pants that it might turn into a nuklear holocaust.


Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
So you would simply let a hostile country displace or kill you, your family, and your friends?
I find that hard to believe.


Why would I fight for a country that hates me Pepe? Hates me for what I am and everything I believe in? I'd do what I could to keep my family safe, but that very different from rallying behind the flag. If the invaders offer a better deal, I'm probably going to side with them. What is the point of a country after all?


NOW we are getting to the Truth.
It was obvious to me that there was something in your background that was influencing your opinion.

Bottom line is, time will tell.
Regardless of other ppl's poor opinion of my credibility, my priority is to find and accept the Truth, no matter where it may lie.



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10 Apr 2023, 3:34 am

Pepe wrote:
NOW we are getting to the Truth.
It was obvious to me that there was something in your background that was influencing your opinion.


Ah psychologist Pepe is back in the thread. My mercenary view of modern "Britain" and the ultra cynical view of power I hold doesn't actually affect my opinion much here. Even if I were the most flag-waving patriot and loved my country and government such that I felt the need to leap in front of politicians to save them from bullets... it doesn't change the fact that when you have no hope of winning - the smart (and moral) choice is surrender - not getting everyone that is left, killed.

When Ukraine has no hope of winning and it looks like it doesn't, the smart and moral choice for third parties to get behind is not the one that encourages a fruitless slaughter. I said some months ago, that even if these fanciful war goals of Ukraine were achieved, the cost would be too high, the cost is already too high.


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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 4:02 am

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
NOW we are getting to the Truth.
It was obvious to me that there was something in your background that was influencing your opinion.


Ah psychologist Pepe is back in the thread. My mercenary view of modern "Britain" and the ultra cynical view of power I hold doesn't actually affect my opinion much here. Even if I were the most flag-waving patriot and loved my country and government such that I felt the need to leap in front of politicians to save them from bullets... it doesn't change the fact that when you have no hope of winning - the smart (and moral) choice is surrender - not getting everyone that is left, killed.


You think pootin will win?
He will be lucky if he isn't assassinated by one of his rivals for destroying the Russian Federation.
He is too scared to mobilise more citizenry because the tide of public opinion is turning against him.

But let's say that Ukraine does win.
Do you think that would be a better outcome than if pootin did?

Mikah wrote:
When Ukraine has no hope of winning and it looks like it doesn't, the smart and moral choice for third parties to get behind is not the one that encourages a fruitless slaughter. I said some months ago, that even if these fanciful war goals of Ukraine were achieved, the cost would be too high, the cost is already too high.


You are entitled to your opinion...
And so am I.



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10 Apr 2023, 5:19 am

Pepe wrote:
You think pootin will win?


Yes, I think so, barring a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine.

Pepe wrote:
He will be lucky if he isn't assassinated by one of his rivals for destroying the Russian Federation.
He is too scared to mobilise more citizenry because the tide of public opinion is turning against him.


This is just Ukrainian and/or Western propaganda - if anything was going to happen it would have happened by now. Putin is very secure in his position and Russia is not on the brink. My unfashionable sources on Russian public opinion say that if opinion is turning at all, it does not turn in a more peaceful direction - if anything Russians are fed up with Putin's pussyfooting in Ukraine. They want it resolved fast and brutally in Russia's favour.

Pepe wrote:
But let's say that Ukraine does win.
Do you think that would be a better outcome than if pootin did?


Not in the long run, for it would leave the initial war conditions unresolved - leaving a possibility for Round 2 in the near future. Also, if Ukraine "wins" as you imagine then Russia falls into disarray and perhaps even civil war. If you think Russia under Putin is bad, wait until you see the nuclear-armed frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic that replaces him in such chaos. Putin holds back the worst of Russian nationalism and said lunatic (who would be far closer to your caricature of Putin, than Putin himself) would share the same red line as all Russian elites regarding Ukraine in NATO.


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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 5:43 am

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You think pootin will win?


Yes, I think so, barring a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine.

Pepe wrote:
He will be lucky if he isn't assassinated by one of his rivals for destroying the Russian Federation.
He is too scared to mobilise more citizenry because the tide of public opinion is turning against him.


This is just Ukrainian and/or Western propaganda - if anything was going to happen it would have happened by now. Putin is very secure in his position and Russia is not on the brink. My unfashionable sources on Russian public opinion say that if opinion is turning at all, it does not turn in a more peaceful direction - if anything Russians are fed up with Putin's pussyfooting in Ukraine. They want it resolved fast and brutally in Russia's favour.


Does this look like a man who isn't paranoid?
Image



Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
But let's say that Ukraine does win.
Do you think that would be a better outcome than if pootin did?


Not in the long run, for it would leave the initial war conditions unresolved - leaving a possibility for Round 2 in the near future. Also, if Ukraine "wins" as you imagine then Russia falls into disarray and perhaps even civil war. If you think Russia under Putin is bad, wait until you see the nuclear-armed frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic that replaces him in such chaos. Putin holds back the worst of Russian nationalism and said lunatic (who would be far closer to your caricature of Putin, than Putin himself) would share the same red line as all Russian elites regarding Ukraine in NATO.


I am prepared to cross that bridge if we come to it.

I doubt that the rabid dogs that would take over would want to initiate a nuklear holocaust.
And they would be more concerned with trying to keep the Russian Federation together, imo



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10 Apr 2023, 5:53 am

Pepe wrote:
Does this look like a man who isn't paranoid?


Let me rephrase, he is very secure by the standards of Russian politics. Paranoia and thuggery is par for the course in that game, but that does not mean he isn't secure.

Pepe wrote:
I am prepared to cross that bridge if we come to it.

I doubt that the rabid dogs that would take over would want to initiate a nuklear holocaust.
And they would be more concerned with trying to keep the Russian Federation together, imo


Well consider yourself warned if you happen to get what you want. The by-then-deceased Putin will no doubt accept your apologies as his successor really starts lighting global fires.


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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 6:00 am

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Does this look like a man who isn't paranoid?


Let me rephrase, he is very secure by the standards of Russian politics. Paranoia and thuggery is par for the course in that game, but that does not mean he isn't secure.

Pepe wrote:
I am prepared to cross that bridge if we come to it.

I doubt that the rabid dogs that would take over would want to initiate a nuklear holocaust.
And they would be more concerned with trying to keep the Russian Federation together, imo


Well consider yourself warned if you happen to get what you want. The by-then-deceased Putin will no doubt accept your apologies as his successor really starts lighting global fires.


Shall we simply "agree to disagree"?



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10 Apr 2023, 6:16 am

Pepe wrote:
Shall we simply "agree to disagree"?


That's pretty much always where we end up in this thread. I don't see why it would hurt now hehe.


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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 6:16 am

Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Shall we simply "agree to disagree"?


That's pretty much always where we end up in this thread. I don't see why it would hurt now hehe.


<relief> :heart:



Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 6:49 am

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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 6:53 am

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10 Apr 2023, 6:55 am

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10 Apr 2023, 7:01 am

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10 Apr 2023, 10:41 am



Clickbait MacG interview again for those who prefer videos. Lots on America's desired war with China this time, not just Ukraine. Contains a darkly humorous scenario about how the Ukraine war ends from the point of view of the lying Western media:

Conditions inside Ukraine are horrific, the losses are horrific, we simply lie, we don't tell the truth. The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Telegraph in England, whatever you want to pick out as a news outlet... has assimilated the narrative out of Langley, London & MI6.

The Ukrainians are winning. The Ukrainians are winning.
Well... they can still win, they can still win.
Well...uh... things aren't going well, but they can still win.

and eventually it will be...

Uh. We no longer have contact with anyone in Kiev.

Horribly plausible.


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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 8:21 pm

Leak was verified as authentic.

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Pepe
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10 Apr 2023, 8:27 pm

Mikah wrote:

Clickbait MacG interview again for those who prefer videos. Lots on America's desired war with China this time, not just Ukraine. Contains a darkly humorous scenario about how the Ukraine war ends from the point of view of the lying Western media:

Conditions inside Ukraine are horrific, the losses are horrific, we simply lie, we don't tell the truth. The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Telegraph in England, whatever you want to pick out as a news outlet... has assimilated the narrative out of Langley, London & MI6.

The Ukrainians are winning. The Ukrainians are winning.
Well... they can still win, they can still win.
Well...uh... things aren't going well, but they can still win.

and eventually it will be...

Uh. We no longer have contact with anyone in Kiev.

Horribly plausible.


The K/D ratio has been very favourable for the Ukrainians previously, but that isn't the case in recent battles in Bakhmut, where it has been estimated that it is more like 1:1 due to urban warfare.

I didn't watch the video.
More important research to do.