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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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ASPartOfMe
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27 Oct 2022, 1:11 pm

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
An option is to hope & pray that reports of putin's increasingly failing health are true and that maybe this whole mess expires with him..

"Be careful what you wish for, it might just come true"
My hope is that is not true in this case.

Imagine his successor is Prigozhin...


I bet your left testicle that things couldn't be worse when pootin is roasting marshmallows in hades.
With pootin gone, there will be the opportunity for "A Great Reset" in world politics.

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I do not think magz does has a left testicle :lol:


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Pepe
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28 Oct 2022, 5:39 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
An option is to hope & pray that reports of putin's increasingly failing health are true and that maybe this whole mess expires with him..
"Be careful what you wish for, it might just come true"
My hope is that is not true in this case.
Imagine his successor is Prigozhin...
I bet your left testicle that things couldn't be worse when pootin is roasting marshmallows in hades.
With pootin gone, there will be the opportunity for "A Great Reset" in world politics.

Likely but not surely.
It can get worse. History of Russia provides such precedents.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Russia is losing the war in Ukraine.
The Russian Federation is at the beginning of falling apart because of pootin's abusive internal political ineptitude.
No leadership change can alter these fundamentals.



Last edited by Pepe on 28 Oct 2022, 5:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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28 Oct 2022, 5:41 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Off Topic
I do not think magz does has a left testicle :lol:


We just don't really know, now, do we?
Have you met her in person? 8O



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28 Oct 2022, 5:42 am

Pepe wrote:
Russia is losing the war in Ukraine.
The Russian Federation is at the beginning of falling apart because of pootin's abusive internal political ineptitude.
No leadership change can alter these fundamentals unless there is a military reversal.

True.
But once Russia falls apart, what becomes of it is a great unknown.
Among the possibilities, the "something even worse" does exist, as much as we wouldn't like to think about it.


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28 Oct 2022, 7:11 am

Anyone else nervous about what it's going to mean for the war in Ukraine when the Republicans take back the US government and decide to stop sending aid to Ukranians and perhaps even take a pro-Russian stance?



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28 Oct 2022, 7:33 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Anyone else nervous about what it's going to mean for the war in Ukraine when the Republicans take back the US government and decide to stop sending aid to Ukranians and perhaps even take a pro-Russian stance?
I hope the support is bipartizan enough not to stop.
From what I watched, only most fringe groups on both left and right voted against it - the vast majority of both Democrats and Republicans are for.

By the way, I just learned that USA has sent to Ukraine around 2% worth of their military budget. Which means they can do it for long time, with relatively little strain. Way less than staying in Afghanistan did cost.


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28 Oct 2022, 8:01 am

That's good to know. Honestly anything to keep Russia from taking over Ukraine and other parts of Europe is a good thing in my opinion. Not just because it slightly effects the US and the rest of the world, but I deeply sympathize with the Ukranian people after learning about the starvation genocide they were subjected to under Stalin.

I don't blame their people for never forgiving or forgetting that. And the fact that so far Ukraine has pushed Russia back has given me hope that maybe the wicked don't always win.



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28 Oct 2022, 11:13 am

Lest we forget. There are quite a few parallels between what Russia is doing in Ukraine now and what the US was doing in Iraq 15-20 years ago. Americans should have a sober perspective on the current situation and talk about the support given to Ukraine by the US with a certain amount of diffidence. Back in those days Americans viewed anybody giving support to Iraqi insurgents as an enemy.


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28 Oct 2022, 11:25 am

I'm not a fan of Iraqui war but... were you targeting civilian infrastructure on massive scale? Were you claiming Iraquis were not a nation? Were you claiming large parts of Iraqui territory as yours? Were you looting? Were you leaving mass graves and mines in child toys behind?

I know, Iraqui war wasn't a good thing and there were numerous abuses but the "parallels" don't go particularily far.

When it comes to being seen as Russia's enemy, though... we've been like that for decades. Nothing new here, nothing to lose.


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DeathFlowerKing
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28 Oct 2022, 11:39 am

magz wrote:
I'm not a fan of Iraqui war but... were you targeting civilian infrastructure on massive scale? Were you claiming Iraquis were not a nation? Were you claiming large parts of Iraqui territory as yours? Were you looting? Were you leaving mass graves and mines in child toys behind?

I know, Iraqui war wasn't a good thing and there were numerous abuses but the "parallels" don't go particularily far.


I feel like the main difference between what Russia is doing and what Americans were doing in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam is that while our govermment had its own selfish agenda for these nasty brutal wars, many of us Americans actually did believe we were fighting to stop oppression in these countries like we did during WW2. After the bad things were revealed to the public in these wars many Americans were outraged and it made us more cynical and less likely to trust our government.



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28 Oct 2022, 12:35 pm

magz wrote:
I'm not a fan of Iraqui war but... were you targeting civilian infrastructure on massive scale? Were you claiming Iraquis were not a nation? Were you claiming large parts of Iraqui territory as yours? Were you looting? Were you leaving mass graves and mines in child toys behind?

I know, Iraqui war wasn't a good thing and there were numerous abuses but the "parallels" don't go particularily far.

When it comes to being seen as Russia's enemy, though... we've been like that for decades. Nothing new here, nothing to lose.

In thinking about how to answer your question, I had somewhat of an epiphany. So I experienced that war from the point of view of somebody living in the US, and you as somebody in a country whose government and media were probably at least somewhat sympathetic to US policy. So if some of those nasty things happened in Iraq we might not have learnt of them, whereas of course we do when they happen in Ukraine. Attacks on civilian infrastructure? Probably. Rape? I have to assume so. Booby trapping kid's toys? I would find that hard to believe but then we Americans think we're all nice people and can't do that sort of thing. But read some American history and you'll learn that Americans are capable of some ugly stuff. Do people in Poland know who Emmit Till was?


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28 Oct 2022, 1:11 pm

MaxE wrote:
Do people in Poland know who Emmit Till was?
I know.

Definitely, people of every nation are capable of doing evil things. That's not the point. The point is a system that promotes it and pushes for more and more of it instead of trying to curb it. And weather people try to stand against such system or if they support it.
The point is also learning from one's own mistakes. Things can change when over time we understand more.


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28 Oct 2022, 4:17 pm

magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Do people in Poland know who Emmit Till was?
I know.

Definitely, people of every nation are capable of doing evil things. That's not the point. The point is a system that promotes it and pushes for more and more of it instead of trying to curb it. And weather people try to stand against such system or if they support it.
The point is also learning from one's own mistakes. Things can change when over time we understand more.

Well the problem as I see it is invading another country to achieve some political or foreign policy objective rather than because you basically have to. And once the war begins, atrocities inevitably follow.


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29 Oct 2022, 2:28 am

Attrocities always happen but they can be of different level.
In particular, thay may be random discipline problems or they may be the very strategy.


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29 Oct 2022, 9:30 pm

Some local guy messaged me on a chat app where I have an anti-russia profile pic and said his wife is Ukranian and he's been there twice a year for several years and that we don't know what's going on over there.. that Zelenskyy was installed by Americans and there are a bunch of German skinheads/nazis there and russia has a right to get rid of them blah blah it's just two sides fighting a war and both think they're in there right and ought to be able to defend their territory.

I've never been there, so can't say for sure what goes on.. and never know, maybe he's visited some pro-russia region near the border - I didn't ask - but in general I think he's kinda nuts. It seems that the basic truth is that russia made up a nonsense reason to invade (nazis) and is waging an illegal war. I mean, there might Actually be a few nazis - apparently there are - but probably fewer than there are in the USA and Canada or Mexico aren't charging into the USA to liberate them from nazis... soooooo.. yeah, I tend to think he has some wild ideas even if they're based on half truths.


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29 Oct 2022, 10:16 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Some local guy messaged me on a chat app where I have an anti-russia profile pic and said his wife is Ukranian and he's been there twice a year for several years and that we don't know what's going on over there.. that Zelenskyy was installed by Americans and there are a bunch of German skinheads/nazis there and russia has a right to get rid of them blah blah it's just two sides fighting a war and both think they're in there right and ought to be able to defend their territory.

I've never been there, so can't say for sure what goes on.. and never know, maybe he's visited some pro-russia region near the border - I didn't ask - but in general I think he's kinda nuts. It seems that the basic truth is that russia made up a nonsense reason to invade (nazis) and is waging an illegal war. I mean, there might Actually be a few nazis - apparently there are - but probably fewer than there are in the USA and Canada or Mexico aren't charging into the USA to liberate them from nazis... soooooo.. yeah, I tend to think he has some wild ideas even if they're based on half truths.


Kinda reminds me of when George W. Bush lied and claimed Iraq was hiding "weapons of mass destruction" to justify his invasion.

I guess the one thing Americans and Russians actually have in common is the lies we tell ourselves to justify invading and destroying other countries.