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Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Dengashinobi
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12 Mar 2023, 5:00 am

I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.



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12 Mar 2023, 5:08 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.


Trump is a dick, but he was right in expecting NATO to contribute towards its defensive capacity realistically.

Just because Trump is a narcissist doesn't mean everything he does is wrong.
Only a hyperpartisan would disagree. 8)



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 5:11 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


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12 Mar 2023, 5:14 am

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


This is why I want the Democrats to win in the next Presidential election...
But without an Uncle Joe or a Kackling Kamala.



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 5:15 am

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
You disagree pootin is the reason his war started?
"Interesting"...


"Interesting" you use "Interesting". :mrgreen:

Two points:
1. The disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.
2. Biden's invitation to pootin to invade if it was only "limited".

Biden's visit to Kyiv was to "cancel" the betrayal of Afghanistan and to show a long-lasting commitment to Ukraine.

"The Oracle of Truth" has spoken. 8)

Both happened when the invasion was already decided.


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12 Mar 2023, 5:16 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
You disagree pootin is the reason his war started?
"Interesting"...


"Interesting" you use "Interesting". :mrgreen:

Two points:
1. The disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.
2. Biden's invitation to pootin to invade if it was only "limited".

Biden's visit to Kyiv was to "cancel" the betrayal of Afghanistan and to show a long-lasting commitment to Ukraine.

"The Oracle of Truth" has spoken. 8)

Both happened when the invasion was already decided.


Are you a mind-reader now? 8O
If so, what will Xi do with Taiwan? :scratch: :wink:



Dengashinobi
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12 Mar 2023, 5:21 am

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


You can call him a buffoon all you want but neither the war in Ukraine, neither the Taliban takover of Afghanistan took place during his term, so...



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 5:21 am

Pepe wrote:
Are you a mind-reader now? 8O
No but I witnessed some of preparations back in the summer 2021. At that time, all I knew was "Russians are up to something big". I'm sure CIA knew much more detail at the same time.
Pepe wrote:
If so, what will Xi do with Taiwan? :scratch: :wink:
The analytists I listen to speculate no invasion but blocade, possibly partial.


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magz
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12 Mar 2023, 5:27 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


You can call him a buffoon all you want but neither the war in Ukraine, neither the Taliban takover of Afghanistan took place during his term, so...

He talked about withdrawing from Afghanistan but did not dare to do it, as it was doomed to be unpopular.

Blaming Biden on Russian invasion on Ukraine is just as "rational" as blaming Trump on outbreak of covid would be.


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Dengashinobi
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12 Mar 2023, 5:38 am

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


You can call him a buffoon all you want but neither the war in Ukraine, neither the Taliban takover of Afghanistan took place during his term, so...

He talked about withdrawing from Afghanistan but did not dare to do it, as it was doomed to be unpopular.

Blaming Biden on Russian invasion on Ukraine is just as "rational" as blaming Trump on outbreak of covid would be.


Now you are mentioning it, he was also the one to call it "the China virus" which turned out to be right. Apparently it was a lab leak and China was and is to blame. I hated his misogynistic remarks but his foreign policy was pretty robust.



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 5:49 am

If we understand "robust foreign policy" as isolationism and withdrawal from various international agreements, spiced with accusative rhetorics - as a USA ally, I wasn't happy about it.


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The_Walrus
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12 Mar 2023, 6:28 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


You can call him a buffoon all you want but neither the war in Ukraine, neither the Taliban takover of Afghanistan took place during his term, so...

The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan is the direct result of Trump signing a peace deal with them and committing to the withdrawal of US forces. Biden delayed the withdrawal a bit, but he was bound by Trump's commitments.

Trump was also not the first US president to ask the rest of NATO to increase military spending. That's a common theme for every US president. Here is Obama, and here is Dubya. The pattern of increased spending begins with the invasion of Crimea in 2014, which coincides with Obama's remarks, not anything Trump did.



Dengashinobi
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12 Mar 2023, 7:15 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I never liked Trump but I have the feeling that he would have been a better influence regarding Ukraine as well as Afghanistan. He had an overal more assertive presence in the global scene. Remember he was the one asking Nato members to increase their military spending way before the war. Now they are all rushing to pump up their military. He was right before everybody else realised.

That's only his internal image in USA. In Europe, he was always seen as an incompetent buffoon tooting his own horn.
If he believed he could handle Afghanistan withdrawal better, why didn't he do it?

And he's an isolationist. That would have made it way easier for putin.


You can call him a buffoon all you want but neither the war in Ukraine, neither the Taliban takover of Afghanistan took place during his term, so...

The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan is the direct result of Trump signing a peace deal with them and committing to the withdrawal of US forces. Biden delayed the withdrawal a bit, but he was bound by Trump's commitments.

Trump was also not the first US president to ask the rest of NATO to increase military spending. That's a common theme for every US president. Here is Obama, and here is Dubya. The pattern of increased spending begins with the invasion of Crimea in 2014, which coincides with Obama's remarks, not anything Trump did.


I don't remember Obama doing it but I clearly remember everybody freaking out when Trump did. Now it seems he was right.

The deal with the Taliban is another thing to give credit to Trump. He negotiated U.S.'s way out instead for the anarchy that unfolded during dementia Joe's time.

Funny thing, I saw a youtuber going to Taliban controlled Kabul, in the Geen Zone. He went through a dumped pile of folders left by the U.S. agencies. The paperwork was about iclousivity projects, you know, about transgender rights in Afganistan and so on. Lol So you know your taxpayer dollars where well spent.



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 7:27 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
I don't remember Obama doing it but I clearly remember everybody freaking out when Trump did. Now it seems he was right.
People here freaked out on his threats to dissolve NATO.

Dengashinobi wrote:
The deal with the Taliban is another thing to give credit to Trump. He negotiated U.S.'s way out instead for the anarchy that unfolded during dementia Joe's time.
Then why didn't we see an orderly withdrawal during trumps term?

He was just a big mouth. Still is. It's easy to say "I'd do it better", it's hard to actually do.


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Dengashinobi
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12 Mar 2023, 7:34 am

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I don't remember Obama doing it but I clearly remember everybody freaking out when Trump did. Now it seems he was right.
People here freaked out on his threats to dissolve NATO.

Dengashinobi wrote:
The deal with the Taliban is another thing to give credit to Trump. He negotiated U.S.'s way out instead for the anarchy that unfolded during dementia Joe's time.
Then why didn't we see an orderly withdrawal during trumps term?

He was just a big mouth. Still is. It's easy to say "I'd do it better" until you actually try.


Because it was a process that needed time. Dementia Joe's was not a withdrawal, it was a collapse.



magz
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12 Mar 2023, 7:42 am

He had 4 years.

As of summer 2021, there was no time. Back then, I was horrified with the disaster, too - but after feb 24, I understood. Getting rid of a place where us army could be freely attacked was urgent.

From unofficial sources, I know troops from Afghanistan ended up in Rzeszow these few months later.


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