Will Europe be predominantly muslim by the next century?

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Fireblossom
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16 May 2022, 5:47 am

Unless some Islamic religious extremists throw large coups all over Europe and take over, no. The 50s are just too soon. Might happen further in the future, though.



BlossX
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16 May 2022, 5:53 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Unless some Islamic religious extremists throw large coups all over Europe and take over, no. The 50s are just too soon. Might happen further in the future, though.


in 2100 .. maybe? who knows!

I am just worried about the clash of cultures..!



kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 6:07 am

Most children of immigrants assimilate well into the culture of their adopted country. Sometimes, the parents do, too.

Especially when they come to the country very young, or are born in the adopted country, they learn to speak the new language thoroughly, frequently without an “accent.”

They usually feel proud to be citizens of their new country.



magz
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16 May 2022, 6:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Most children of immigrants assimilate well into the culture of their adopted country. Sometimes, the parents do, too.

Especially when they come to the country very young, or are born in the adopted country, they learn to speak the new language thoroughly, frequently without an “accent.”

They usually feel proud to be citizens of their new country.
Unless they're shoved into ghettos.
Ghettos are bad for wider communities, both the "inside" and the "outside" ones.


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kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 6:18 am

Believe it or not, even those who are shoved into ghettos (which I am not for at all) usually assimilate. They feel the desire to get out of the ghetto, so they adapt to their new country, and take steps to attempt to get out of the ghettos. Many times, they do succeed. Some don’t, though.

My great-grandparents and grandparents were shoved into ghettos in the late 1800s-early 1900s. My grandmother didn’t do so well, but my mother used her irritation at her lot to progress from the ghetto.



kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 6:19 am

I have known quite a few immigrants and their families throughout my life.



hurtloam
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16 May 2022, 6:23 am

magz wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Most children of immigrants assimilate well into the culture of their adopted country. Sometimes, the parents do, too.

Especially when they come to the country very young, or are born in the adopted country, they learn to speak the new language thoroughly, frequently without an “accent.”

They usually feel proud to be citizens of their new country.
Unless they're shoved into ghettos.
Ghettos are bad for wider communities, both the "inside" and the "outside" ones.


Yes, when the OP mentioned dangerous areas people don't want to go to, that part of a wider socioeconomic issue.

Are these people given the same opportunities?

I was watching a video someone had found about the deprivation in my area in the 80s. This was a place where they just shoved the working classes. It was a time when major manufacturing industries were closing down.

It's still a bit rough here, but no where near as bad. The council are funding new housing and schools. There's a new outdoor playing field which has been in use most days. Kids need something to do.

I'm reading a good book called, "There's Nothing for you Here by Fiona Hill that looks at the effect changing industry has had on communities in the UK and America. When the industry moves out, what do you do? If you're shoved into a deprived area with no work, what do you do?

People fall into despair and negative behaviours.

Othering people is the start of division. Reaching out and providing inclusive events and activities is the way forward. Make people feel like you want to connect with them, otherwise they will get defensive and burrow in.



magz
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16 May 2022, 6:26 am

I looked at profiles of recent terrorist attackers in Europe, Charlie Hebdo and similar.
They weren't the immigrants.
They were second or third generation in Europe, from poverty and unemployment-stricken districts in France and Belgium, where Arabs immigrated in second half of 20th century as workers. Now the factories have moved to China and Myanmar, these immigrant workers' districts got hit with unemployment and hopelessness, while their original homelands are often not worth returning to, either.

You see, there are deep social problems and policies of unemployment benefits don't solve them.


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Fnord
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16 May 2022, 6:29 am

BlossX wrote:
Will Europe Be Predominantly Muslim By The Next Century?
[opinion=mine]

It does not matter.

[/opinion]



kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 8:14 am

There was the same sort of thing in the early 1900s----the Mafia is an example. Members of the Mafia were usually 1st or 2nd generation Italian immigrants. They had ties with the Mafia from southern Italy and Sicily.

Same with Irish criminal gangs, or Jewish criminal gangs. Usually 1st-2nd generation immigrants.

Most people from all immigrant ethnic groups, though, disavowed the Mafia, gangs, criminality in general. They wanted to make a life for themselves in the United States. They went to school, college. They got jobs. Sometime blue-collar, sometimes white-collar. Many were able to move out of their ghettoes, into more suburban surroundings.

It's a little different for black and Hispanic people. Less of a percentage were able to move out of the ghetto. Recently, though, they have had as much success as Italian, Jewish, Irish, etc. They had to be given a little push (affirmative action). But now, many are succeeding. Many dark-skinned immigrants from Caribbean countries happen to be succeeding without the need for affirmative action. My wife is an example of such a person.

Please remember: I believe in more of a "fair shake" for immigrants than what is happening-----even if some or many immigrants are making it. We should try to ensure that NO ONE is left behind, unless a person happens to be a criminal. I don't believe in discrimination against immigrants----especially since I am a product of immigrants. Our nation is a nation of immigrants.

My grandmother had it a little better as she got older; but the best she could do was to be a resident of a pretty decent housing project----but a project, nevertheless. My mother was the one who was able to transcend her "origins," and move into higher echelons.



kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 8:35 am

People have been saying, for 60 years, that we will become a Hispanic country. This is because of the massive immigration of people from Hispanic countries since just after World War 2.

Sure, there are pockets of cities which show off their "Hispanic" aspects-----but, even now, this country is far from being a "Hispanic" country. Most Hispanics adopt many aspects of American culture, and assimilate into American culture.

Sometimes, there is pressure to do so----most of the time, though, they assimilate because they want to assimilate. They came here, primarily, for a "better life," rather than come here to go on welfare or something. At worst, they come here to make money to send back home to their families (nothing wrong with that!! !!)

I don't believe you will have souks in Amsterdam, Paris, Rome, etc. any time soon. Or hear "the call for prayer" five times a day, or see a bunch of people dropping everything to pray to Mecca 5 days a day.



magz
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16 May 2022, 9:14 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe you will have souks in Amsterdam, Paris, Rome, etc. any time soon. Or hear "the call for prayer" five times a day, or see a bunch of people dropping everything to pray to Mecca 5 days a day.

My huband's coworker from Egypt dropped the prayers after a few weeks.
But what I find more important is not religion itself but other aspects of social life. Like, gender mixing and all the rules around it. When I started to think about it, I realised European rules are quite complex for someone who never socialized in mixed circles.


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aghogday
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16 May 2022, 9:26 am



It Might be Helpful to Do Some Research
on the 'Growth of Religion in the World'

To See What Folks Who Actually Study This Have Say:

"Most academics who have analysed the demographics dismiss the predictions that the EU will have Muslim majorities.[353] It is completely reasonable to assume that the overall Muslim population in Europe will increase, and Muslim citizens have and will have a significant impact on European life.[354] The prospect of a homogenous Muslim community per se, or a Muslim majority in Europe is however out of the question.[355] Eric Kaufman of University of London denied the claims of Eurabia. According to him, Muslims will be a significant minority rather than majority in Europe and as per their projections for 2050 in the Western Europe, there will be 10–15 per cent Muslim population in high immigration countries such as Germany, France and the UK.[356] Eric Kaufman also argue that the main reason why Islam is expanding along with other religions, is not because of conversion to Islam, but primarily to the nature of the religion, as he calls it "pro-natal", where Muslims tend to have more children.[103] Doug Saunders states that by 2030 Muslims and Non-Muslims birth rates will be equal in Germany, Greece, Spain and Denmark without taking account of the Muslims immigration to these countries. He also states that Muslims & Non-Muslims fertility rate difference will decrease from 0.7 to 0.4 and this different will continue to shrink as a result of which Muslims and non-Muslims fertility rate will be identical by 2050.[357] A survey conducted by Pew Research Center in 2017 found that conversion has a negative impact on the growth of the Muslim population in Europe, with roughly 160,000 more people leaving Islam than converting into Islam between 2010 and 2016.[343]"

Other than that the Research Shows that Both Christianity And Islam Will
Increase From Approximately 2 Billion Followers to 3 Billion Followers by the Year 2050 to about 6 Billion Total;

So In Other Words, While It May Seem That Religion is Dying in Some Western Countries; it is Far From Dead
on the Continents of Asia, South America, And Africa; Yet of Course, Those Are All Areas of Third World
Countries, Where There is Still Great Poverty, Starvation, And Overall Human Misery and Suffering; Yep,

Just What 'The Doctor' Ordered For SCaRCiTiES in those Countries; An Authoritarian Savior/God Related
Religion or Two to Give Hope Where it May Otherwise Be So Difficult to Find; Where For Some

Folks, the Only Hope They Can Find

Is Hope After This

Hopeless

Life on Earth;

As 'They Say,' Better
Than Nothing; Yep, Better
to Have Hope than Nothing

As at Least There is Some Positive Feeling Left in Life to Live...

Religion Serves A Purpose; Both As Potential Escaping Life and Embracing it too...

Obviously, Living in
So Much Abundance,

i Choose A Heaven that
is Real Now; Not Only Within,
Yet Everywhere i Look Outside
of my Window into A Real Garden
of Eden on Earth, Where i Am Free
to Be Naked, Enough, Whole, And Complete;

Free Enough to
Create and
LiVE mY
Own Religion
For Free, Per the
Rights to Life, Liberty,
And The Pursuit of Happiness...

We Have Much More to Fear From 'Domestic Terrorism' Here;

Meh, Yet i Live in a Place Where Most Folks Look the Same
And Go to the Same Church; Not Unlike Once Homogenous

Countries In Sweden And The Such; It's Human Nature, Folks
Get Along Better Bonding And Binding to the Same Ways Of Life;

If it's Not the Church For More Abundance in Hope; It's The State

That May
Provide
Real
Avenues
for Heaven on
Earth Within and
on the Outside too...

Regardless, It's Human;

Just Surviving or Thriving And Loving Life Now...

No Matter What Forms Bring This Essence Real Now...

Ironically, in the United States, What is Most Likely to Keep
Organized Religion together, is if the State is Prevented From
Providing Avenues for Subsistence And Actually Thriving in Life;

So Far, 'The Church' is Doing Its Best With Their Political Cronies to

Make This
A Reality

For the
Organization(S) to Survive...

And The Way that Happens
Most is if Overall, Congregants Are

Suffering Misery in the Countries they LiVE iN;

Keep 'Em Down in Fear; Master, Subjugate, And Control

in Self-Made And Supported Prisons Now on Earth Resembling Hell More Than

Heaven

where
the only
Escape is
Death and
'Stories' After that...

Not Buying the Gaslit
Lies Yet Again, Life is
Colored Much Different
in Abundance Than SCaRCiTiES iNDeed...

As Long As The Western World Leads in Social Welfare;
Freedom is More Likely to Survive Without Theocratic Control...

It's Just
The Way Life
Works; And It's
Really Just Common
Sense, For Anyone Who
Has Both Lived in Scarcity and Abundance Now and Then;

And Studied The Folks Who LiVE iN Heaven And Hell and The Tween on Earth...

In Purgatory and Hell, Ya Look For Hope Anywhere You Can Find it or Folks Are Giving it Away...

Yet Be
Careful
What Ya
Buy; As
Some Folks
Just Love to 'Tale Stories'

TO
GET
THEiR WaY SELFiSHLY...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion



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kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 9:28 am

Just like in language, people who come to another country as immigrants when they are relatively young---are probably more capable, in general, at picking up the nuances of the "new culture" than people who immigrate at a relatively older age.

It's because of "brain plasticity," I believe. Younger brains are "flexible," and have "more room" to learn new things.



aghogday
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16 May 2022, 9:53 am



SMiLes, It's Also Worth Noting That 'Neuroplasticity'

And Even 'Epigenetic Effect' in Unpacking Human Potentials

Is A Life Long Learning Experience Now Depending On How
Much Environmental Challenge We Are Exposed to As Humans;

And This is Really What's Great About 'The Information Highway;'

Someone in a Very 'Backwoods' Area in the World May Have an Opportunity

To Be Exposed to Different Ways of Both Seeing and Being in the World; Personally,

i've Watched This Happen With Many Young Folks

In the World From Many Different Religions

Where As They Grow Older and Move Now

to More 'Advancing Ways of Life in Freedoms'

They Changed As Well and At Least Make The Religions
They Grew Up with A Kinder And More Compassionate

Way of Seeing And Being

iN A World they Come to
Live in Now With So Many

More Nuances than the
Rigid Ways of Seeing and
Being in Life Dogmatic
Religion Brings Where An Attempt
is Made to Censor Outside Influences For
What Might Otherwise Bring More Positive
Changes in Life to Thrive Now; i've Watched as

Once Very Fundamentalist Islam Folks Move to Europe
And Leave the Faith Almost Completely Behind; It's What

We aRe Exposed

to Or not Exposed

to in Life in Challenge of

Change in the Environment that

May Make So Much Difference, Positive or Negative;

For me at Least, From the Period of my Work Life After
College to the Advent of the Information Highway, my Mind

Basically Stagnated Without Much Opportunity to Learn New Stuff in Life
And Really Be Challenged in Many More Ways of Life; Now There Are No Limits

As There is No Way i Can And Will Ever Catch Up to all that is Offered in Potential

Learning

And Environmental

Challenges in Change for Human Growth Now;

For me at Least, For 'the Within'; It's a Real 'Fountain of Youth;'

As Long as We are Changing in a Positive Way, We aRe Really
GRoWinG Younger Now it

Feels, it

Senses,

i Know at
Least for me;

And Yes, Positive Within
in Evolving GRoWinG Ways, Often Makes
A More Positive and Youthful Glow on the Outside too...

Yeah, it might be easy to call me 'Pollyanna' Without All the Evidence That Does Apply Hehe...

This World Is A New Testament, Always Changing, For Those Who Attempt to Catch Up and Do THeir Best..:)



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16 May 2022, 11:59 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Just like in language, people who come to another country as immigrants when they are relatively young---are probably more capable, in general, at picking up the nuances of the "new culture" than people who immigrate at a relatively older age.

It's because of "brain plasticity," I believe. Younger brains are "flexible," and have "more room" to learn new things.

Fluid Intelligence


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