funeralxempire
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02 Jul 2022, 2:55 pm
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.
That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.
The oil bidness would total collapse if there were no tax breaks.we would prolly have to import abour 70 to 90 percent of the America oil needs from OPEC and Canada and Mexico and Norway.All fracking would be gone for good.Gasoline would prolly be about 15 to 20 bucks a gallon if my family's company did not get mega tax subsidies.Collusion would be illegal for the American oil companies according to my economics teacher.
Collusion would be illegal, but would also only be punished if enough evidence was put together to form a case and that case was actually brought forward. Just like all other crime, our knowledge of how commonly it occurs is largely tied to our ability to notice it, not to how common it actually is.
If the oil business can't earn a profit on it's own why should regular people subsidize it? I thought the free market was the most efficient means of determining what businesses should operate and at what scale, but if what you're saying is true about petroleum depending upon subsidies that's suggests that either market economics doesn't work as claimed or that the petroleum industry can't operate without receiving welfare, regardless of the profits it earns, which suggests it should be taken over to streamline that side of it's finances, as well as to ensure the people paying the subsidies also own the profits.
And all the parasitic, over-compensated execs can be turfed, which should increase efficiency. There's people who will do the same or better for less, considering how poorly things are being done now.
02 Jul 2022, 3:29 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.
That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.
The oil bidness would total collapse if there were no tax breaks.we would prolly have to import abour 70 to 90 percent of the America oil needs from OPEC and Canada and Mexico and Norway.All fracking would be gone for good.Gasoline would prolly be about 15 to 20 bucks a gallon if my family's company did not get mega tax subsidies.Collusion would be illegal for the American oil companies according to my economics teacher.
Collusion would be illegal, but would also only be punished if enough evidence was put together to form a case and that case was actually brought forward. Just like all other crime, our knowledge of how commonly it occurs is largely tied to our ability to notice it, not to how common it actually is.
If the oil business can't earn a profit on it's own why should regular people subsidize it? I thought the free market was the most efficient means of determining what businesses should operate and at what scale, but if what you're saying is true about petroleum depending upon subsidies that's suggests that either market economics doesn't work as claimed or that the petroleum industry can't operate without receiving welfare, regardless of the profits it earns, which suggests it should be taken over to streamline that side of it's finances, as well as to ensure the people paying the subsidies also own the profits.
And all the parasitic, over-compensated execs can be turfed, which should increase efficiency. There's people who will do the same or better for less, considering how poorly things are being done now.
Germany reduced taxes on gas a few weeks ago to subsidize commuters. Prices for consumers didn't go down one cent, oil companies just raised their prices by the same amount the tax reduction would have lowered it.
Do the tax reduction went straight towards oil company profits. That's how capitalism is meant to work, and if CEOs didn't act this way, they could and would be sued by shareholders.
Prices aren't high because of taxes, prices are as high as the oil companies can push them.
funeralxempire
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02 Jul 2022, 3:32 pm
shlaifu wrote:
Prices aren't high because of taxes, prices are as high as the oil companies can push them.
Exactly and the concrete example is appreciated.
It's a lot easier to defend how an economic system should work than how it does work.
Doesn't every economic system work well on paper?
02 Jul 2022, 4:56 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.
That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.
The oil bidness would total collapse if there were no tax breaks.we would prolly have to import abour 70 to 90 percent of the America oil needs from OPEC and Canada and Mexico and Norway.All fracking would be gone for good.Gasoline would prolly be about 15 to 20 bucks a gallon if my family's company did not get mega tax subsidies.Collusion would be illegal for the American oil companies according to my economics teacher.
Collusion would be illegal, but would also only be punished if enough evidence was put together to form a case and that case was actually brought forward. Just like all other crime, our knowledge of how commonly it occurs is largely tied to our ability to notice it, not to how common it actually is.
If the oil business can't earn a profit on it's own why should regular people subsidize it? I thought the free market was the most efficient means of determining what businesses should operate and at what scale, but if what you're saying is true about petroleum depending upon subsidies that's suggests that either market economics doesn't work as claimed or that the petroleum industry can't operate without receiving welfare, regardless of the profits it earns, which suggests it should be taken over to streamline that side of it's finances, as well as to ensure the people paying the subsidies also own the profits.
And all the parasitic, over-compensated execs can be turfed, which should increase efficiency. There's people who will do the same or better for less, considering how poorly things are being done now.
Well I dont think any company should get subsidies.You really think the typical worker could run Pioneer Natural Resources really well?There's no way a nationalized energy industry would go well in Texas.It would wind up like Venezuela because governments are not the best at taking care of the economy.The government has decided that the lesser of two evils is huge tax breaks to the energy industry.State-run formal communism has never worked once in the history of man.
02 Jul 2022, 5:00 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Prices aren't high because of taxes, prices are as high as the oil companies can push them.
Exactly and the concrete example is appreciated.
It's a lot easier to defend how an economic system should work than how it does work.
Doesn't every economic system work well on paper?
Well, there are some that work on paper that I'd be willing to try out in practice - like some versions of Georgism.
The weird thing about capitalism is just how many concepts used in the theory are proven to be false, but the theory is not being updated given the new information - rather, people are being nudged and incentivized to behave more like how the theoretical people are behaving.
But only the theoretical people are theoretically happy with their behaviour, real people are having a mental health crisis, and an opiate crisis, and a cost of living crisis and so on...
02 Jul 2022, 5:04 pm
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.
That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.
The oil bidness would total collapse if there were no tax breaks.we would prolly have to import abour 70 to 90 percent of the America oil needs from OPEC and Canada and Mexico and Norway.All fracking would be gone for good.Gasoline would prolly be about 15 to 20 bucks a gallon if my family's company did not get mega tax subsidies.Collusion would be illegal for the American oil companies according to my economics teacher.
Collusion would be illegal, but would also only be punished if enough evidence was put together to form a case and that case was actually brought forward. Just like all other crime, our knowledge of how commonly it occurs is largely tied to our ability to notice it, not to how common it actually is.
If the oil business can't earn a profit on it's own why should regular people subsidize it? I thought the free market was the most efficient means of determining what businesses should operate and at what scale, but if what you're saying is true about petroleum depending upon subsidies that's suggests that either market economics doesn't work as claimed or that the petroleum industry can't operate without receiving welfare, regardless of the profits it earns, which suggests it should be taken over to streamline that side of it's finances, as well as to ensure the people paying the subsidies also own the profits.
And all the parasitic, over-compensated execs can be turfed, which should increase efficiency. There's people who will do the same or better for less, considering how poorly things are being done now.
Well I dont think any company should get subsidies.You really think the typical worker could run Pioneer Natural Resources really well?There's no way a nationalized energy industry would go well in Texas.It would wind up like Venezuela because governments are not the best at taking care of the economy.The government has decided that the lesser of two evils is huge tax breaks to the energy industry.State-run formal communism has never worked once in the history of man.
It worked well in Norway and made Norwegians the wealthiest people ever.
Because an idiot can run an oil company in a booming fossil fuel addicted economy, but only a nation state can shovel the profit into a national fund to pay for social stuff like education, healthcare and retirement funds.
02 Jul 2022, 5:39 pm
02 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
You have to be really lucky to get rich as a oil baron and/or oil executive not just any joe can do it.Hardly.You have about as good of a chance as being a billionaire oil executive as winning the lotter from the local Stripes gas station.
The phrasing "not just any joe can do it" makes it sound like a question of exceptional ability, but the rest of the paragraph is using terms of luck and chance.
The chances of becoming an oil billionaire may be slim, but that does not mean there should be billionsires in the first place. And: Norway, the nation, did it so much better than all the American oil billionaires. So please let's skup the discussion of whether running an oil business needs some skill and effort - it does- or whether it needs exceptional genius - it doesn't, the world is addicted to oil.
The question is: there are ways for a nation to run an oil business for the benefit of its people - why should we accept individuals taking the profit, while we have to watch our infrastructure crumble, teachers live in poverty, people lose their life's savings over a medical emergency, and watch our environment go down the drain when we could puck the other oprion, in which the government runs the business Norwegusn style? It obviously is possible, or it wouldn't be "Norwegian" style.
02 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm
funeralxempire
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02 Jul 2022, 11:53 pm
auntblabby
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03 Jul 2022, 1:12 am
auntblabby
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03 Jul 2022, 1:13 am
funeralxempire wrote:
A solution for this problem has existed for ages:
some deserve to be face-up in that thing
Sweetleaf
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03 Jul 2022, 3:29 am
auntblabby
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03 Jul 2022, 4:10 pm
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