A different subject I’d like to talk about

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funeralxempire
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17 Jul 2022, 3:02 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:

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The United States government played an active role in the drafting of the Convention and signed it on 16 February 1995, but has not ratified it. It has been claimed that American opposition to the Convention stems primarily from political and religious conservatives. For example, The Heritage Foundation considers that "a civil society in which moral authority is exercised by religious congregations, family, and other private associations is fundamental to the American order", and the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) argues that the CRC threatens homeschooling.

But somehow, the overlapping groups seem to be obsessed with the agenda of "protecting children" at the same time.

It's interesting how when the US works as a progressive force on the international stage their own reactionaries prevent them from actually getting on board with the project.

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League_Girl
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17 Jul 2022, 3:52 pm

If people truly wanted to protect minors, they would be educating minors about lying about their ages to have sex with adults and telling them even if they do spike the adult's drink or even if the adult was drunk, the will still be treated as the perpetuator because of their age. It's a shame that even on Twitter I have seen adults explain on their pages for minors out there who lie about their ages to be on adult websites to talk to adults or even follow adult accounts that are kink material explaining why this is putting the adult lives in danger and why they can't be on adult websites or following kink pages and how this is even dangerous for them as minors. They are putting their own lives and other adult lives in danger.

Parents need to talk to their kids about this like mine did and my school counselor and even articles need to be published in teen magazines for this for teens to read because they are ignorant. I knew because I had adults to tell me and I cared about justice and fairness and I was taken advantage by other kids my own age so it made me study laws to make it harder for anyone to take advantage of me so I would know how to protect myself. Minors who don't have a disability and were never used or taken advantage of and never had adults fail them don't worry about this stuff so they wouldn't even be thinking about laws.

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kraftiekortie
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17 Jul 2022, 3:56 pm

There are some kids who just want to “grow up” too quickly.

These sorts of kids tend to have short lives.

League_Girl
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17 Jul 2022, 4:06 pm

Ugh, when I lived in Montana it was so normal for teens to date young adults and even have sex and one of them got pregnant at age 14 and the dad was 20. Lot of locals were totally okay with all this. Then finally when Montana decided to pass the age of consent law when my brother was in high school,. all his friends were pissed because they didn't like the idea of their boyfriends being pedophiles now and predators. :roll:

Just because there was no law about it doesn't mean it was okay. Remembers morals. In some countries, age of consent is a lot lower and I know in some places like Yemen, a child isn't a woman till she menestrates which I think is so stupid. So if an eight year old gets her first period, she is a woman now and can have sex now? Men are not allowed to touch their wives will they get their first period. But some countries seem to have pedophilia acts legalized based on how their laws are written and how they recognize womanhood and what makes someone a woman. I have even seen men defend this because of laws you know and laws are laws and "pedophilia is only frowned upon because culture tells you it is wrong." Okay then, so you are basically telling me you are a pedophile then because you think many people don't act on it because of the laws and because of how society views it. I tread apologists the same way as predators when they defend this and play the "law is the law" card to justify it.

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cyberdad
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17 Jul 2022, 4:15 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

My uncle used to go to brothels to hook up and get laid. He got a disease from it and died. My mom told me this.

….they are mandated to get the girls health checked on a regular basis both to protect their clients and the girls themselves. The clients are mandated to use protection to cover themselves and the girls.

Do you mean “women?”

yes

funeralxempire
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17 Jul 2022, 4:16 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Just because there was no law about it doesn't mean it was okay. Remembers morals. In some countries, age of consent is a lot lower and I know in some places like Yemen, a child isn't a woman till she menestrates which I think is so stupid. So if an eight year old gets her first period, she is a woman now and can have sex now? Men are not allowed to touch their wives will they get their first period. But some countries seem to have pedophilia acts legalized based on how their laws are written and how they recognize womanhood and what makes someone a woman. I have even seen men defend this because of laws you know and laws are laws and "pedophilia is only frowned upon because culture tells you it is wrong." Okay then, so you are basically telling me you are a pedophile then because you think many people don't act on it because of the laws and because of how society views it. I tread apologists the same way as predators when they defend this and play the "law is the law" card to justify it.

It's a mess because there's obviously a basement below which no one can consent, from that point on the percentage rises until eventually you've got an age where everyone should be able to except for those who won't ever be.

Basically from that basement until end-of-life, a society needs to balance the right to pursue gratification against the right to not be sexually exploited.

A perfect solution will never exist so a society needs to be able to make those decisions for itself, but on the other hand it can't be ignored that in societies where the power structure is deeply slanted in favour of some people, they might choose to make that decision in a way that serves their interests more than that of other members of society (say by setting it unreasonably low).

My main argument for treating minors and young adults differently from older adults when it comes to criminal responsibility and life-long labelling is largely driven by recognizing that any law will be imperfect and that as a result a system needs to have the ability to apply discretion on the individual level.

Essentially, a system is obliged to error in one direction so the checks on that need to push back in the opposite direction.

funeralxempire
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17 Jul 2022, 4:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

My uncle used to go to brothels to hook up and get laid. He got a disease from it and died. My mom told me this.

Do you mean “women?”

yes

Yes and no. Yes, in that they're women but no in that girls is both common and widely accepted by the people being referred to in that context.

'Girl' as a euphemism for sex worker isn't new and almost certainly relates to how girl was also used for female servants regardless of age.

It's kinda like 'boy' as another term for a male servant, which is another long attested use (and even includes other words that once meant boy, like cniht (knight) and page).

Social norms have shifted and have made hierarchical use of those terms much less acceptable, but in the context of a brothel girls is synonymous with workers.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 17 Jul 2022, 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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17 Jul 2022, 4:25 pm

League_Girl wrote:

When I grew up my older cousin told me the dating scene in the 1970s and it sounds an awful lot like your Montana except Australian states always had strict age of consent laws. Even back then if you were 17 and still in school then it was illegal for you to have sex with an 18 year old outside of school. The only exceptions were school leavers whereby a 16 year old who was living away from home (this does happen) can give consent.

Hookup joints like bars are full of fake IDs and its really hard to tell young women apart from young 15-16 year old girls when they are all wearing tight little cocktail dresses. I am also confused how online apps like Tinder expose fake ages? so my guess is this is still happening,

cyberdad
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17 Jul 2022, 4:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

My uncle used to go to brothels to hook up and get laid. He got a disease from it and died. My mom told me this.

Do you mean “women?”

yes

I think this may be a Australian cultural thing, Even my 85 year old mother calls herself and her friends "girls".

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17 Jul 2022, 4:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

My Spanish teacher married at 21 and his wife was 17, she had their kids at 18. They were still married 17 years later when I was in high school. My teacher's nephew married at 22 and his ex wife was 16 and they adopted a daughter together. They were married for 8 years.

This was Montana for you.

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funeralxempire
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17 Jul 2022, 5:05 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I think this may be a Australian cultural thing, Even my 85 year old mother calls herself and her friends "girls".

That's always an explanation those of us on the upper half fail to consider.

Huh? Oh right, Straya.

League_Girl
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17 Jul 2022, 5:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Hookup joints like bars are full of fake IDs and its really hard to tell young women apart from young 15-16 year old girls when they are all wearing tight little cocktail dresses. I am also confused how online apps like Tinder expose fake ages? so my guess is this is still happening,

Goodness, maybe everyone shouldn't be having sex with young men and women because you never know if they are underage with fake ID posing as an adult. The law wouldn't be on your side and the judge wouldn't care because somehow it's your fault you fell for fake ID and couldn't tell between a 16 and a 19 year old. :roll:

Ever wonder why stores ID anyone under 40 or 30 years of age, because of teens that look like adults due to mature looks like beards or lack of baby fat in their faces so as precaution and to avoid getting in trouble with the law, they require they card anyone who appears under 30 or under age 40 depending on the area. I am in a reddit sub called 13or30 where kids can look like literal adults or adults looking like a literal child. This is why ID laws exist because of these people who may exploit their looks to break the law. If I get carded, I think it's just someone who takes their ID store policy very seriously or their boss is carefully watching their employers and will fire or write them up for failing to card someone. The cashier may think I am obviously in my thirties but the boss might think different like "she looks 25" because people judge age differently in people so the cashier may be taking precaution when carding people.

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League_Girl
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17 Jul 2022, 5:35 pm

I call anyone young lady who appears under 30. I even call teens young ladies because I feel calling them a girl would be patronizing and condescending. What if they are 18 or 22? They would be offended for me calling them a girl because I assumed they were underage.

I still get called a young lady by older adults. :lol:

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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jul 2022, 7:30 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

like the US for example banning DNA experimentation and China not doing so.

First of all, as far as I know, experiments that do not use human DNA are not prohibited or even encouraged in most countries.

Secondly, China prohibits DNA experiments applied to humans.
If the world's first gene editing baby who appeared in China left a deep impression on you, another information is that the experimenter received a three-year sentence for this.

I was probably pulling it more as an example than to bash China specifically, the idea is that whoever leads a multipolar trap is in the drivers seat. IMHO there really the core political and economic that keeps the world batisht crazy because even if we knew for certain that we had all the food, water, and shelter we needed for everyone, geopolitics would still be what it is.

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funeralxempire
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17 Jul 2022, 7:42 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

IMHO there really the core political and economic that keeps the world batisht crazy because even if we knew for certain that we had all the food, water, and shelter we needed for everyone, geopolitics would still be what it is.

Honestly, it would probably get worse. I feel like if resource scarcity ceased to be a concern war would become a professional sport, or at least stop masquerading as anything more than one.

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17 Jul 2022, 7:50 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Honestly, it would probably get worse. I feel like if resource scarcity ceased to be a concern war would become a professional sport, or at least stop masquerading as anything more than one.

I think the ways it would get worse would be slightly different - nations would have fewer legitimate scarce resource battles but the one permanently scarce thing, ie. status, would become the only thing that matters and men would have to become utter barbarians to prove that they're 'man' enough to pass their genes on, ie. hooliganism would go berserk.

Not impossible that we could end up with some really disgusting leaders as a side-effect of accelerated status race conditions but I still get the sense that this would be the more primary issue driving that.

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