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orbweaver
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13 Jul 2022, 7:25 am

I used to come off waaaay too strong. I'd say something and it would just end up sounding much worse than it did in my head.

Or sometimes I think I mean a particular thing in the moment but then only really think about it after it's been said.

I got much better at this with time.


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DW_a_mom
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13 Jul 2022, 8:08 pm

I have unintentionally offended people.

My son, who is the family member with the ASD diagnosis, has done it more often.

One difference is that I am more likely to recognize in the moment what I've done, and have a chance to rectify it.

It's really upsetting when I learn I've hurt someone and had missed the signs. Its one of the reasons I prefer to address sticky topics only on forums more than in real life. More chance to re-read and check myself, and make sure I am using the tone, kindness and understanding I hope to achieve.

My son really beats himself up over some of the incidents he learned of after the fact.

No one is perfect. Intention matters. When you make a mistake, own it and try to fix it. Then learn from it. That is all anyone can do.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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13 Jul 2022, 8:29 pm

Quote:
Do you ever Unintentionally offend people?


Occasionally.

And it turns out that when I want to deliberately offend people I can often be very, very, good at it.

Which might or might not be a skill to be proud of.


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Dial1194
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13 Jul 2022, 10:05 pm

Oh, probably. Just as often as people unintentionally offend me, really.



IsabellaLinton
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14 Jul 2022, 12:27 am

All the time:

- no eye contact
- resting b face
- stressy or impatient mannerisms
- face blindness
- mutism
- seeming to like animals more than them
- seeming to like books more than them
- sensory overwhelm
- meltdowns and shutdowns
- avoidance of social obligations and small talk
- not using the phone
- being blunt or overly honest
- not using social scripts
- inability to express emotions
- difficulty with flexibility or change
- fight or flight responses (PTSD)
- hyper-focus on details
- forgetting what I'm supposed to remember
- remembering what I'm supposed to forget
- questioning and challenging double standards
- not wavering from what I believe
- needing a 99:1 ratio of alone time

What's there not to love?


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naturalplastic
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14 Jul 2022, 4:56 am

The question is "have you, the autistic reader, unintentionally offended other people more often than other people have unintentionally offended you?"

Other folks are as obtuse towards me at least as often as I am towards them, if not more so.



kraftiekortie
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14 Jul 2022, 7:47 am

There are times, I believe, when people take offense too quickly----make assumptions that just aren't true.

I didn't mean to offend these people; but I find, at times, that the "punishment" did not fit the "crime."

Part of the problem is that I'm not psychic. I might not know, say, that I would say something that evoked some traumatic event 30 years ago. Yet the person so offended treats me like I "should" have known the event occurred, and that I'm eminently insensitive because I should have KNOWN that she experienced the trauma.

I feel bad that I accidentally evoked the event-----but I really didn't know it had occurred!



IsabellaLinton
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14 Jul 2022, 9:49 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The question is "have you, the autistic reader, unintentionally offended other people more often than other people have unintentionally offended you?"

Other folks are as obtuse towards me at least as often as I am towards them, if not more so.



I'm not offended easily. I respect people who need a lot of time to themselves, or people who make mistakes.

The only thing that bugs me is when I try having a meaningful or important conversation with someone, but they don't pay attention or they ignore the whole thing in real time.

Example: "I had such a bad day because ....." Response: "Have you seen my shoes?" 8)

Sometimes it even happens with apologies, when I try having a heart to heart with someone.

Example: "Hey, I'm sorry about __________. Here's why it happened." Response: "Have you seen my hat?"

For some people it's a predictable pattern and there's no point even trying to connect. Chances are, they'll later say "But you never told me!", even though I did -- likely just moments before. With some people I've put way more effort into honesty and communication than they ever have, but they still tell me it's my fault.

I guess that's classic gaslighting.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jul 2022, 10:17 am

Speaking of which.....I wanted to wear a certain pair of socks today-----but, alas, I could not locate them! :P



shortfatbalduglyman
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14 Jul 2022, 12:04 pm

Jay123 wrote:
I consider myself normally quite a friendly and nice person, and I do have a decent number amount of friends, but I have little to no social graces, and I tend to come off as offensive and blunt without intending to be. Sometimes people actually scold me for my social awkwardness. I've noticed this in a lot of people on the Spectrum. On rare occasions I'm called an as*hole even though I don't intend to be. Does this ever happen to you?


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It would be hard to imagine that someone could go for 39 years and unintentionally offend zero people

Especially since anything could offend anyone

:nerdy:



naturalplastic
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16 Jul 2022, 12:33 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The question is "have you, the autistic reader, unintentionally offended other people more often than other people have unintentionally offended you?"

Other folks are as obtuse towards me at least as often as I am towards them, if not more so.



I'm not offended easily. I respect people who need a lot of time to themselves, or people who make mistakes.

The only thing that bugs me is when I try having a meaningful or important conversation with someone, but they don't pay attention or they ignore the whole thing in real time.

Example: "I had such a bad day because ....." Response: "Have you seen my shoes?" 8)

Sometimes it even happens with apologies, when I try having a heart to heart with someone.

Example: "Hey, I'm sorry about __________. Here's why it happened." Response: "Have you seen my hat?"

For some people it's a predictable pattern and there's no point even trying to connect. Chances are, they'll later say "But you never told me!", even though I did -- likely just moments before. With some people I've put way more effort into honesty and communication than they ever have, but they still tell me it's my fault.

I guess that's classic gaslighting.

You have a person in your life who does that. Ive never had that.

But I had coworker who was - a potential friend- but she kept doing the thing that offended me. That thing being implying that I am lying about something...and ascribing motives I dont have for...the lie I didnt tell. But usually she make these insinuations is a benign way...as if she was doing me a favor- which made it worse.

One particular occasion this person actually got angry at me and yelled me -because of one of these nonexistent motives -for a nonexistant lie I didnt tell. Didnt know how to respond at the time. Since I constantly reminded of this conversation (because I work at the same job) I think about it all of the time. How could I have I responded differently. My conclusion is...that the only possible response would be to tell her "if you're gonna be angry at me, be angry at me for the right reason and not the wrong reason."

This person was begging me to swap tasks with her. In my experinces the boss care which subordinate does which job. So I assumed that she would get the boss's permission. But she didnt. I didnt know (until it dawned on me later)that she had already with boss about doing this task.

I agreed to do it. But THEN we met with the boss lady, and the boss lady ordered each of do what she (the boss lady) wanted us to do-which was ofcourse NOT swapping tasks. So I just shrugged and walked out to the salesfloor, and started on what the boss told me to do.

The lady in question just ran out to the sales floor blathering about how I am not doing what I agreed to do with HER. Before I could say "you saw the boss give us both direct ORDERS"..she just started doing the thing she wanted me to do... while screaming "if you dont wanna do it JUST SAY SO".

Didnt know how to respond- so I kept silent. But it grated on me that she thought that I didnt want to do the task. It meant that after working with me for years she didnt "get" me as a person.

One of the ironies was that the job she was ordered to do -that she didnt want to do- was what I consider to be THE plum job - that anyone would WANT to do. Its fun (for me anyway) AND it pumps up your productivity figures. So indirectly its...like getting free money.

Second irony by being given that job -this lady was GETTING OUT of doing another job (the job that the boss lady did herself) that really IS a nasty ass job.

So (to me anyway) it galled me that the lady in question would have the nerve to complain about getting a less bad job when it got her OUT of doing certain a far worse task.

So from my pov it was as if she were saying "I dont wanna go to the trouble of taking a bundle of free money. Could you do me the favor of taking this free money for me?" And then saying "If you dont wanna rip me off why dont you SAY so?".

This is my fantasy of what I now WISHED I had said.


"The issue is NOT what do I wanna do. The issue is what the BOSS wants us to do. And that we would BOTH violating direct orders from boss.

you're such a wimp that you cant handle job X. you're such an extreme wimp that you have nerve to complain about it even though doing job x gets you out of jobY which is far worse. AND not only are you an extreme wimp, but you're also kinda stupid. Stupid because by refusing to do job X you are going against your own self interest.

Now I would be more than HAPPY to ...take advantage of your pathetic sorry ass, by taking advantage of you by doing job X, and ripping you off (which from my pov is what Id be doing). But I am not at liberty to pick your pocket and rip you off right now because...the boss ordered me to do something else! And apparently you are so blind deaf and stupid that you dont realize that the boss both just gave us orders either!".

She would be horrified if I had said that.

So that would give me the opening to say "before you were angry at me for a false reason...that you thought I was lying and trying to get out of doing something. Now you're angry at me because you think that I am eager to do that thing and have contempt for you for not wanting to do it. Before you were wrong. But now you're right. I do have contempt for you. So now we understand each other. Because now you hate for me for what I actually AM, not because what I am not.".

I doubt that I would have said all of that either. But it feels good type all of that right now. :lol:



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16 Jul 2022, 12:59 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I guess that's classic gaslighting.

You have a person in your life who does that. Ive never had that.


I've had more than one gaslighter.

There's the type that I mentioned before ^^, ignoring communication but then saying they didn't know. That's always laughable especially when the communication was in clear written form and there's no disputing it.

Then there's the type who walk a moral high-ground. They think I never have a right to be upset and especially -heaven forbid- not with them. I have PTSD, so it's easy for them to condescend with comments like "Don't be histrionic!" or "You're such a snowflake!", if I express unpleasant feelings. This happens even when my feelings have nothing to do with PTSD.

In my experience and based on what I've read, people with PTSD are often invalidated. Abusive people can use past trauma against the person and claim they are overreacting or wrong. The more you try to give evidence, argue back, or stand up for yourself, the more they say you're crazy. If you walk away or stop talking to them, they say you're being manipulative or that you don't know how to communicate.

It's a lose-lose situation best avoided at all costs.


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16 Jul 2022, 7:14 pm

There's a couple different ways that this can happen honestly and without even making a proper social faux pa.

One way is a break of wavelength - like being nice to cynical people who read everything backward as sarcasm or snark, or just saying or doing unexpected things or saying things that people haven't heard before. Maybe a tidier way to phrase that is breach of conformity without necessarily any breach of rote social etiquette.

Another situation is when someone is trying to shove dominance down on you and your logic-ing your way through it when you're really supposed to be licking their boots and asking how much their protection fee or jizyah is and how/when they want it paid.

If I get a vibe that the first is happening I just talk a lot less around those people until I've figured out what's going on. If it's the later I talk less for different reasons (figuring out my next move).


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16 Jul 2022, 10:40 pm

anything could offend anyone.

anyone could (correctly) label anything as "disrespectful".

for example, someone at the bus stop was screaming "i don't need you to give me a couple bucks!". he could have (correctly) claimed it was "disrespectful" to give him a couple bucks.

"disrespect" is a slippery slope. anyone claiming someone "disrespected" them has the moral high road.

Trump card

trump card

it seems to me that precious lil "people" that keep using the words like "respect" and "offended" are self righteous, self important, inarticulate, small vocabulary.



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16 Jul 2022, 10:56 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
it seems to me that precious lil "people" that keep using the words like "respect" and "offended" are self righteous, self important, inarticulate, small vocabulary.

If someone's ruthless it's quick and easy power that can't be discussed away or diffused because it preempts any attempt at resolution other than on heavy-handed terms decided by the person who felt disrespected or offended.


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16 Jul 2022, 11:05 pm

In social situations, if I'm emotional enough or inattentive enough or start caring too little or much, yes that would happen.

But more than often...
It's the other way around -- people tend to unintentionally offend me more often and I have to keep giving them passes.

Because in their mind, it's their acceptable version of polite, appropriate or even positive. :roll: :x
And I'm just one person over everyone else who agrees with that.

Thus...
I'm never "home".
Being with people who are usually so proud or thought to respect me for reasons I cannot intrinsically appreciate or worse.

Hmph.
It's always about autistics 'unintentionally offending others' -- how about others unintentionally offending autistics?



At work, it's just sheer executive dysfunction.
And I hate it.
I won't do more stupid mistakes and unintentional sh*t if I stop having executive dysfunction.
It made me unreliable to make decisions or do whatever marketing crap.

But nevermind that -- I'm not even working with my strengths and what I can actually do. My work does the opposite -- playing by my weaknesses.
Again -- I hate it. No suggestions about my work because that would be very complicated.


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