Calfornia...Has it been destroyed by left-wing polices?

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Pepe
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09 Nov 2022, 2:36 am

Fnord wrote:

magz wrote:

Last time I checked, the strongest powers attempting to destroy California were wildfires. I'm also aware of earthquakes. I don't think "left-wing policies" cause either.

I know some Right-Wing Christian Dominionists who would whole-heartedly disagree with you on that.

They might be right to some degree in regard to catastrophic bushfires.
Green/left-wing policy over here inhibits/hinders back-burning and the maintenance of fire trails, resulting in much more severe fires when they do happen.

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09 Nov 2022, 2:41 am

magz wrote:

Pepe wrote:

magz wrote:

Last time I checked, the strongest powers attempting to destroy California were wildfires. I'm also aware of earthquakes. I don't think "left-wing policies" cause either.

My right-wing sources have pointed out that liberal policies regarding crime have created a chronic situation of shop ransacking, causing businesses to close down and go out of business or relocate to other states, for example.
Generally, it is suggested that crime is out of control in California.

Available data does not confirm it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... crime_rate

When it comes to politics, I don't view Wikipedia as a reliable source.
I have personal experiences which suggest there is a significant left-wing bias with articles posted, by the general unaccountable public, on that website.
I will see if I can validate the figures presented elsewhere.

Last edited by Pepe on 09 Nov 2022, 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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09 Nov 2022, 2:45 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

Destroyed, no.

Does CA have its flaws? Yes. Every state does.

The main issue would be, of course, housing. But I don't blame left-wing policies (or right-wing for that matter). Rather, it's zoning and NIMBYism that are preventing affordable housing from being built.

I was under the impression that California was an economic basket case.

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09 Nov 2022, 2:52 am

roronoa79 wrote:

California has gone down the tubes for many reasons, many of which are not political in origin. Years of drought brought exacerbated by climate change. Droves of people going to LA fooling themselves into thinking they can make it big in Hollywood, finding no work, and joining the states enormous homeless population. Cities in eastern California being neglected by a market and political culture dominated by the coasts. The excesses and disgusting commercialism of the bloated abomination that is Hollywood.
As for political problems, I would pin it less on the left and more on politicians pandering to the left and center-left. California is the poster child for leftist rhetoric being used as a smokescreen by a political establishment that is still very, very much in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy. The talk about social justice is skin deep. Kamala Harris is a good example. She can run her mouth about the need for equality and inclusion, but immediately turns around and demonizes the homeless and upholds mass incarceration. People on Both Sides (tm) of the aisle are duped into thinking California Democrats are bona fide leftists/socialists/whatever and not people who pretend to be so to further their political careers and the interest of their corporate donors.

Please leave climate change politics out of the equation in this thread.
It would suffice to simply say that drought was a contributing factor.

If businesses are closing down because of rampant crime (assuming my sources are correct), this would be an aggravating element in the homeless problem, would it not?

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09 Nov 2022, 2:55 am

old_comedywriter wrote:

Texas - has it been destroyed by right-wing idiots?

I have no idea. The political discussion made no reference to Texas.

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09 Nov 2022, 2:59 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

roronoa79 wrote:

California has gone down the tubes for many reasons, many of which are not political in origin. Years of drought brought exacerbated by climate change. Droves of people going to LA fooling themselves into thinking they can make it big in Hollywood, finding no work, and joining the states enormous homeless population. Cities in eastern California being neglected by a market and political culture dominated by the coasts. The excesses and disgusting commercialism of the bloated abomination that is Hollywood.
As for political problems, I would pin it less on the left and more on politicians pandering to the left and center-left. California is the poster child for leftist rhetoric being used as a smokescreen by a political establishment that is still very, very much in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy. The talk about social justice is skin deep. Kamala Harris is a good example. She can run her mouth about the need for equality and inclusion, but immediately turns around and demonizes the homeless and upholds mass incarceration. People on Both Sides (tm) of the aisle are duped into thinking California Democrats are bona fide leftists/socialists/whatever and not people who pretend to be so to further their political careers and the interest of their corporate donors.

This answer sounds like the most accurate one for describing California. My friend who lives close to California calls these people "limousine liberals". They don't practice what they preach and they are really out of touch with the true needs of people.

My right-wing sources mentioned that many Californians are migrating to "Red" states to get away from the chaos.
Do you agree?

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09 Nov 2022, 3:07 am

auntblabby wrote:

california is slowly being eroded from within and without, by a variety of bad trends and conditions. most of all, there is multifaceted internal and external resistance to/corruption against doing what is necessary, or even agreeing on what the problems are or in finding common ground rules, for fixing california's multiple problems. the problems are not quite akin to a "slow-motion train wreck" but they still have an exigency that only the foolish would continue to "whistle past the graveyard" about such. IMHO - in many ways - california is a microcosm of the rest of 'muuuurica.

So, you are saying the perception that California is performing particularly badly, in terms of economic strength and social cohesion, is incorrect, iyo?

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09 Nov 2022, 3:11 am

Pepe wrote:

If you don't trust a Wikipedia article, check the sources it links.
In this case, here:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s
https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.g ... rime-trend

Federal government data. I encourage you to explore these sources, especially compare various states with various policies.

Alternative comparisons also show California consistently above-average on crime but far below the record states.
http://www.usa.com/rank/us--crime-index ... phigh=&ps=
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200 ... us-states/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/202 ... /40968963/

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09 Nov 2022, 3:45 am

Pepe wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

So, you are saying the perception that California is performing particularly badly, in terms of economic strength and social cohesion, is incorrect, iyo?

yes. e.g., look at seattle and many other 'muuurican cities. similar problems 'cept for the drought. horrendous cost of living. increased crime. race relations. homelessness multiplying. overpopulation is a big part of the stress of living in both those places. california is just the most public face for a deteriorating 'muuurica. a middle of the road take on it from u.s. news and world report-
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california

as you can see, california is ranked smack-dab in the middle- #24 - in 8 different metrics [health care, education, economy, infrastructure, opportunity, fiscal stability, crime/correction, natural environment]. half of amuuuurica could be said to be doing worse.

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09 Nov 2022, 3:49 am

roronoa79 wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

Why, thank you.
Also I love that label "limousine liberals". I'll definitely use that. People who profess liberal/left-leaning/leftist positions, but mainly do so for the social brownie points or because they think it is the civil/polite/intelligent/proper/decent thing to say--not something they say because of a sincere or fleshed out personal ideology.

I believe this is the real problem with American "left". They're "left" only in rhetorics but representing regular or disadvantaged people against the big money remains in the dreamland.

From my perspective, America has far right spiced with fascist rhetorics versus center-right spiced with woke rhetorics. In the middle, there is some thin strip of moderate right with kind of moderate rhetorics. No real left, not even an equivalent of European center.

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09 Nov 2022, 3:49 am

magz wrote:

Pepe wrote:

magz wrote:

Last time I checked, the strongest powers attempting to destroy California were wildfires. I'm also aware of earthquakes. I don't think "left-wing policies" cause either.

Available data does not confirm it. Crime in California is not higher than in Texas, Alabama and several other "red" states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... crime_rate

In particular, crime rates in California have dropped significantly in the last few decades.
https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime- ... alifornia/

I haven't comprehensively researched, but I don't see any sign of California being a stand-out when it comes to crime. It is bad, but it seems rather average.

magz
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09 Nov 2022, 3:51 am

Pepe wrote:

I haven't comprehensively researched, but I don't see any sign of California being a stand-out when it comes to crime. It is bad, but it seems rather average.

Exactly.

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09 Nov 2022, 3:54 am

magz wrote:

Federal government data. I encourage you to explore these sources, especially compare various states with various policies.

That is what I have found. Texas is shocking when it comes to crime, btw.
So why are people flocking from California to Texas?
Rhetorical question, I guess.

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09 Nov 2022, 3:58 am

Pepe wrote:

That is what I have found. Texas is shocking when it comes to crime, btw.
So why are people flocking from California to Texas?

Are they?
Any data to confirm this?

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09 Nov 2022, 4:16 am

magz wrote:

Pepe wrote:

That is what I have found. Texas is shocking when it comes to crime, btw.
So why are people flocking from California to Texas?

Are they?
Any data to confirm this?

Some high profile people and businesses have made this move - like Elon Musk moving Tesla HQ to Texas from Cali. Cheaper labour, looser labour laws, lower taxes. I can't recall another corporation at the moment, but I know there's been at least one other high profile move. Probably some individuals as well.

I bet it's happening at a measurable noticeable rate, much the same as some people and businesses here in British Columbia (Canada's California, really) are moving to Canada's Texas aka Alberta. Wages are comparable/higher, housing costs about half as much, and taxes are lower. Even without googling for data, I live here and know it's happening.

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09 Nov 2022, 4:35 am

I think that's regular migration, not anything of catastrophic nature.
I haven't been to California, my husband has been to Silicon Valley. He mentions high prices and extremely high prices of housing, so I can understand why people move out of there - especially since remote work has become common - but that's just regular in and out migration patterns.

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