Why do people honestly hate capitalism so much now?

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the American Federal Government tells millions of Americans every year to engage in mass tax avoidance so what do you consider to be criminal tax dodging because in America that would be tax evasion not tax avoidance like taking a charitibile deduction on your taxes. Legal "tax dodging"is the rule of law for everyone who files a tax return in the USA.Although I will concede that the billionaires get the more exotic tax incentives compared to the rest of the citizenry.

Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 23 Jan 2023, 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

There's nothing wrong with reevaluating loopholes.

I agree.

There are various forms in which the government interferes with the private workings of a business and business conduct by individuals. One example is the control of prices by placing ceiling and floor prices and forcing individuals to place a price for their product against their will under threat of penalties. An example of ceiling prices regulation is rent control. An example of floor price regulation is floor prices in agricultural products. Minimum wage is another floor price regulation. An employer and an employee engage in mutually beneficial voluntary transaction of goods and services. A third party, the government, comes allong and imposes them a price. Now of course the employer is incentivized to pay less but also an employee may have their own reasons to accept a lower wage. The government says no you can't work. The unintended consequence of minimum wage regulations is that it creates rigidity that is not beneficial especially for young inexperienced and unskilled workers. An employer could afford an extra employee who is unskilled but who was getting paid less. That could be an opportunity for the unskilled worker to learn a skill and proove themselves for future promotion or better wages. After a minimum wage is imposed, the employer can no longer afford inexperienced employees and delegates the chores that an inexperienced employee was doing to the older more experienced employees. The resault of minimum wage regulation is that it closes the door to new inexperienced employees raising the unemployment among young people, while increasing the workload of the rest of the employees. It also lowers the efficiency of the enterprise.

People are forced to work in the black in order to make a living. They are forced to break the law. The government, by imposing regulations, it makes criminals out of law abiding citizens.

Another form of the government interfering with the inner workings of businesses and with individual conduct is regulations concerning quality, safety and environmental concerns. Each regulation has similar unintended effects as the minimum wage does.

^^^
Sorry, I don't buy that. Plenty of people actually do have to survive on a minimum wage job, despite the claim of conservatives that only entry level young workers are minimum wage earners. And denigrating such low waged workers for their lack of earning power doesn't help. How are workers going to afford goods and services, or food, medicine, and shelter if employers pay them even less than the current minimum wage? You might have an argument, if business hadn't raised prices and lowered wages when making a profit. This argument against a minimum wage - let alone a livable wage - only brings in short term gains for business. A high wage is essentially a long term investment in which the economy grows slowly but much stronger for everyone. A far cry from the get-rich-quick scheme too many business people are more interested in.
By the way, it's always been a standard operating practice for business to hire as few people as they can get away with. Pay less people, but make more profits. The minimum wage has little, if anything, to do with this.

I think I explained in detail enough. If you don't see it then ok.

Anyways, my point was not aiming to demonstrate that minimum wage is causing harm to people, which it does. But to demonstrate how the government forces low abiding citizens to brake the law by working in the black.

By the same logic, we could claim that unequal distribution of wealth and opportunities forces law abiding citizens to become gangsters

Or is it a matter of obstinate business people using the minimum wage to justify working as few people as they can to avoid paying more workers?

Being a gangster an working on the black are not the same thing. Seeking an opportunity to work for an agreed salary it's not the same as trespassing other people's rights (what a gangster or criminal does).

Indeed.
It's a crime to hire in the black if you could afford to do it right.

It can be understandable if a small business or an individual can afford to pay only that much - but big companies? Nope. If they built their success on a systematic crime, they don't deserve it.

It's their right to hire or not hire as many people as they want.

But it's not their right to hire in the black.
If they do, it's neither their workers' fault nor the government's. It's the company's choice to become a white collar criminal.

If this practice is widespread, it shapes the job market really badly.

It's not big companies who hire on the black. It's small businesses who do that. And the responsibility for the "crime" is shared between the two parties who engage in voluntary transactions of goods and services (the employer and the employee), with the appropriate penalties.

Why is it ok for the state to criminalise business owners who need the extra labour but cannot afford to pay more? If it is Ok, is it also ok to criminalise employees who need that money even though it's less than minimum wage? Are this people harming anyone? Except for violating fictional state imposed quotas?

I honestly think minimum wage is band aid to economy that has bigger issues.
I think part of Milton Freedmans logic here is pretty correct, that employ-ability, that is ability of people getting a job is more important to economy than how much they get eventually payed.

However the problem of minimum wage, is that it solves the possibility of people falling through the cracks of the system.
The issue is that if you locally have jobs, but they all pay minimum wage, the people have to move in order to function eventually or be perpetually in poverty.
On other hand it creates job competitive behavior where people strive to improve their job abilities, but this only works if you have the market able to provide better jobs.

The other problem is that many minimum wage jobs don't necessarily create job skills. It gives you some skills allright, but it still does not make you able to compete with people who have regular jobs. There is a gap.

However I think minimum wage, and other employment policies in the world at large in capitalist countries are counter productive to employing people.

Whatever just happened to just getting out of bed walking to the nearest place and getting a job, even if it pays very little.

Various government policies and strict laws protect people somewhat, but those same policies mean that getting a job is a ordeal that makes lot of people less employable.

I do however think that Milton Freedmans ideas only work in theory mainly, because the economy has tendecy to become more of a vulture economy, and cannibalistic economy rather than strictly competitive market place with free flowing capital as it is often presented by libertarian guys like Milton Freedman.

I mean lets ask one question. If you needed a job right now today would you be able to go to work make money?
Most likely the answer is BIG FAT NO! - and that is definitely not the fault of companies.

Because it is okay to criminalize people who need to take things but can't pay for them.

I agree minimum wage is a band-aid and the real problem is the shape of the market.
Similarily, I don't think universal basic income would solve anything - it would just raise rents and leave people in just as bad situation as they used to be.
The problem is a huge imbalance of power. Housing crisis, undocumented immigration (take that job or I have 6 undocumented immigrants on your place!), unaffordable healthcare - they all connect to this imbalance into a tanglment that results in a huge economy being full of real poverty*.

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*real poverty I define as situations where the very survival of a person is regularily at risk because of being poor.