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chris1989
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08 Aug 2023, 2:12 pm

I'm asking this question because I sometimes I hear about what's going in Ukraine and people asking that question about Putin using a nuclear weapon and threatening to use a nuclear weapon which I seem to think he can threaten to use but not actually use it because surely he knows that doing so NATO will retaliate. I seem to think that even North Korea knows that America will retaliate and so can just issues threats but not put them into use.

Its just reminded me of an episode of the UK comedy show Mock the Week, in which comedian Andy Parsons said in response to North Korea doing nuclear tests said ''Kim Jong-il is not going to go ''Well, I could attack Alaska with one weapon and if the Americans retaliate with 10,000, its okay I've still got one left.''

It does make me think though that we are in a different world than what we were in 1945 and I seem think nuclear weapons are much more powerful than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs and that other countries apart from the US, UK, Russia and North Korea such as France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel etc and I seem to think we all know how powerful and devastating there and they all know the consequences from the past like Hiroshima and Nagasaki or maybe even the Cuban Missile Crisis (even though in that, nuclear weapons were luckily and thankfully never used) and are possibly scared and determined never to repeat them again.



Last edited by chris1989 on 08 Aug 2023, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RetroGamer87
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08 Aug 2023, 2:42 pm

I'm sure he would have used one if he had been able to develop one.


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chris1989
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08 Aug 2023, 2:48 pm

It has even got me what about terrorists? Would people like Al Qaeda or ISIS have used them if they got hold of them ?



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08 Aug 2023, 2:50 pm

Pro'ly.


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Aspiegaming
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08 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm

The new Wolfenstein games showed that Hitler nuked New York City resulting in America's surrender.


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Lunella
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08 Aug 2023, 3:58 pm

I think he would have only used one if it benefitted him in some way otherwise no. He was into researching really weird s**t, weird/rare s**t being exploded is probably not what he would want.


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blitzkrieg
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08 Aug 2023, 4:40 pm

I think Hitler would have definitely used nuclear weapons if he had them. He was fanatical to his cause & the fact that he committed suicide demonstrates that he would be willing to receive a return nuke (with the possibility he might die in such a blast), in the event both sides had them back them.

He was crazier than any American president, and the U.S. ended up using a couple of nukes!


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08 Aug 2023, 4:48 pm

Personally, I think he was more of a sadist who wanted people to suffer. He tortured their minds as much or more than he tortured their bodies. The gaslighting of non-Aryans, the separation of loved ones, the humiliation and starvation and utter terror of helpless people waiting to die seemed to get him off.

I'd like to nuke him, though.


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naturalplastic
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08 Aug 2023, 5:09 pm

Hitler had a secret nuclear program. Even had heavy water plants in Nazi occupied Norway (that the Brits and Norwejian resistence fighters would sabotage). And leaked word of its existence inspired the fear in the allies that resulted in us starting our own Manhatten Project.

But Hitler's program fizzled out after a while...mainly because other war effort investments took more urgent priority.

If Hitler had gone full throttle on it and had gotten an A-bomb at a moment when the Allies did not have one (and thus couldnt retaliate in kind) I dont see why he wouldnt have used it. Maybe dropped a nuke on London. But he couldnt have gotten A bombs before 1945 when the allied armies were already on his doorstep. So even nuking London wouldnt have stopped the allies at that point.



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08 Aug 2023, 5:28 pm

i read that so far the only thing stopping poootin from nuking ukraine is that the prevailing winds would blow fallout over russia.



blitzkrieg
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08 Aug 2023, 5:48 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i read that so far the only thing stopping poootin from nuking ukraine is that the prevailing winds would blow fallout over russia.


NATO have promised retaliation also, I have read somewhere. Including threatening to conventionally "wipe out" the Russian army.


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08 Aug 2023, 6:00 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i read that so far the only thing stopping poootin from nuking ukraine is that the prevailing winds would blow fallout over russia.


Makes you wonder how many close calls there has been in the past and no one knows about it.


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08 Aug 2023, 6:09 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i read that so far the only thing stopping poootin from nuking ukraine is that the prevailing winds would blow fallout over russia.


Most of the fallout would blow over Belarus, but if it gets Lukashenko to turn against Pooty-Poot, the more the better.

I don't think any nukes will be used, though.


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09 Aug 2023, 12:07 am

It's probably worth pointing out that Hitler's Germany was the first state to develop nerve gas, which is an especially horrifying chemical weapon - ask a first responder for details sometime. The Nazi regime, however, elected not to use nerve gas. Supposedly, this was because they thought the Allies had already developed similar weapons and could manufacture them at a greater scale than Nazi Germany could - so Germany would be worse off if both alliances started using nerve gasses.
I imagine Hitler would have used a nuclear weapon if he were confident that the Allies hadn't developed that technology - it probably becomes a lot harder to lose a war when you have nuclear weapons and your enemy doesn't. But he at least seemed unwilling to escalate when it came to chemical weapons for fear of retaliation.



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09 Aug 2023, 3:12 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i read that so far the only thing stopping poootin from nuking ukraine is that the prevailing winds would blow fallout over russia.


NATO have promised retaliation also, I have read somewhere. Including threatening to conventionally "wipe out" the Russian army.


Yes Hitler would have used Nukes only if we didn’t have them or close to German territory like in 1945

Repeat the last bit as it’s important in relation to Ukraine.

Nuclear posture is all about MAD or mutual assured destruction. The knowledge that by launching against a rival power will lead to your own destruction like in the Cold War.

So it’s unlikely the US will lose NewYork or Washington for Ukraine. In fact it’s doubtful they would for the UK since the UK’s nuclear codes are controlled by the U.S.

The only independent nuclear country in Europe is France and it’s unlikely they will see the Eiffel Tower go up in smoke with their city for Kiev.

It’s just the law of the jungle you don’t suicide yourself for others.

Sure all hell would break loose and China would be in a tricky situation diplomatically, Russia would lose India support and a few other friends. The west would go on high alert but that’s about it.

In this game you also can’t get away with arming your enemy’s enemy like with Cuba.

In the words of Kennedy a nuclear attack by Cuba will be seen as a nuclear attack by the USSR and the U.S. will launch against them.

Same principle in Ukraine, maybe even N Korea or Iran.

A country to be destroyed will not allow its enemies to gain the upper hand it doesn’t matter if they didn’t press the button against them. That’s just the way it works.

Read Samson option that Israel had for an idea of what I mean


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09 Aug 2023, 4:28 am

carlos55 wrote:
.....since the UK’s nuclear codes are controlled by the U.S.


What? :scratch: No they don't.

Quote:
American operated Trident missiles are controlled through the US Navy chain of command by the US President. ‘Permissive action link technology’ prevents anyone other than the president or someone he has delegated control to authorising a launch.

In 2007, the UK Government revealed that its nuclear weapons were not equipped with Permissive Action Links. Instead, the UK’s nuclear bombs to be dropped by aircraft were armed by just inserting a key into a simple lock similar to those used to protect bicycles from theft, the UK withdrew all air-launched bombs in 1998. The current UK Trident warheads can also be launched by a submarine commander with the support of his crew without any code being transmitted from the chain of command.

The British missiles are controlled through the Royal Navy chain of command all the way up to the Prime Minister. In reality the Prime Minister would make the launch decision in concert with whatever was left of the British government.

The key point here is that the British deterrent does not have permissive action link control, which means it does not rely on the use of codes to fire the system. The UK’s Trident fleet relies purely on military discipline to prevent a launch.

In summary, the UK retains full operational control, to the extent that the US could not stop the UK from using the system.


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-amer ... r-weapons/


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